Note: The following story contains spoilers from “The Diplomat” Season 4.
“The Diplomat” creator Debora Cahn has never wanted to base her political drama on today’s biggest headlines, instead crafting an intricate international relations plot that guided the Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell-led series through its first chapter.
But four seasons into “The Diplomat” and over two years into Donald Trump’s second term, something shifted for Cahn. “If you’re talking about the government and foreign policy … we can’t be off in another galaxy — we have to be dealing with … the questions that people in that field are asking themselves every day, and it got to a point where not asking those questions just felt absurd.”
At its core, Cahn noted Season 4 centers on the question of “What happens if you get an order you don’t like?” which comes into relevance when Russell’s Kate, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Kingdom, gets a particularly hostile directive from president Grace Penn (Allison Janney) that threatens the countries’ long-running partnership. And, not for nothing, the order comes after Grace endures an assassination attempt in another nod to the Trump era.
What one’s responsibility is when receiving that order, Cahn noted, is “hotly debated” both in Washington and across the country. The team heard how various government officials deal with the dilemma in conversations with about 30 people from different countries, political parties and branches of government before writing the season.
“We get as many points of view as we possibly can because we want to know what people are actually dealing with,” Cahn told TheWrap. “We don’t want to copy the stories from the front page, but we want our characters to be grappling with the same moral toxic waste that people who work in the world are right now.”
After largely steering clear of current political headlines, Cahn admitted diving into the subject matter was “a little bit scary,” noting she does not take these ethical dilemmas lightly — especially when it comes to government officials who have “taken a stand that was really difficult to take.”
“If you disagree with what the government is doing, does that mean you have to leave, or does that mean you have to stay to try and reduce the damage?” Cahn posted. “I don’t know how I would answer that question, and I think a lot of people don’t know day-to-day what their answer is going to be by the end of the day. But it seemed like the question everybody’s asking.”
Below, Cahn unpacks the tension rising between the show’s central couples and breaks down that shocking ending. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
TheWrap: The assassination attempt traumatizes Grace and becomes a point of conversation whether that’s what rocked her or if she’s always been more pre-disposed to risk. How did you want to approach that conversation from a character standpoint?
Cahn: I never really wanted it to be clear what was happening. Is it a question of recent experiences she’s had? Is it a question of, “This is what happens when you sit in the big chair”? Everything looks different. The questions don’t have simple answers. Otherwise, they wouldn’t get on your desk. I think it’s easy for a lot of people to say, “Oh well, she changed, and she’s not like she was.” Well, being president is not what she was, and she has a different kind of responsibility, and she’s facing a much different world than her predecessor did.
The attempt also gives Hal and Kate a flash of what the power of the presidency can be. How does that set up for the rest of the season?
Whenever possible, we want to kind of topsy-turvy the relationships, and this seemed like one thing that was going to upend absolutely every relationship on the show — and it did. When things like that play out, I think that people have a sense of how they’re going to handle radical change in their life. People have a sense of how they’re going to handle power, and I think even when we know what’s coming, it doesn’t necessarily help. I think their own behaviors are surprising them … everybody’s off center.
After introducing Bradley last season, you finally got more time with the four of them. How did you want to approach pairing the various couples, especially when it came to pairing Todd and Kate together?
I mean, every axis of every combination of the four of them is just so juicy and fun, and we want as many different pairings as possible. But it was obvious that the Kate and Todd thing was going to be like just a priceless double act, and it very much was.
We see Kate’s blackmail essentially take Trowbridge out and raise eyebrows from staff. How did you want Kate to reckon with her own morals this season, and how does she land back to where she’s comfortable?
We talk about her like a frog in a pot of boiling water. She understands that things are changing incrementally, and each little incremental shift, she’s able to explain to herself, justify to herself and agree to take part in. But then you wake up one day and say, “My red line was over here, how is it that I’m halfway down the street now?” She has the luxury of being able to talk to people she really trusts, who didn’t inch through it … who are looking at it with a much broader lens, and that helps.
We meet the new PM (played by Jodie Whittaker), who has an interesting connection with Kate. How did you want to build our their dynamic?
Jodie’s fantastic. She’s an absolute delight to work with, and the fantasy was Kate is dealing with world leaders that she feels are like fundamentally problematic and creating a lot of chaos, and there’s this sense of “Well, if I just had somebody who thought more like I do, wouldn’t that be great? Wouldn’t it be great if she’s just like me, and she’s smart, and her heart’s in the right place, and her values are in the right place, and she’s a doer and a problem solver, everything would be so much easier.” And finding out that well, no, actually, it isn’t any easier. And then the really horrible part, which is now it turns out you’re the problem. To a sane person, you’re the problem.
Kate exhausts all her options with Grace and even plots for that grand exit at the G7. What considerations went into the move for her and what was her breaking point?
That is an audience question. I have an idea about that, and different people in the company — the writers, the actors, the directors — have a different sense about where the line is. I don’t know if Kate knows. No, that’s not true. Kate knows.
Was that inspired by any of these real world situations we’ve seen of people standing up for their line and leaving?
A lot of people have done it … some publicly and some not in the public eye. I think it’s easy for me to say, “Well, everybody just walk the heck out.” It isn’t an easy thing to do. It’s not obvious if it’s the right thing to do, and I have no idea what I would do in that circumstance. But it seemed like the right question to ask.
We see Billie and Ganon follow, and then Hal. Why did it feel right for Hal to leave as well?
You’re asking good, very, very insightful questions, but I’m not going to answer that one.
Kate and Hal were at a breaking point, but now that they’re on the same page. Where does that leave them?
Well, we’ve seen them on the same page before, but then the page turns and it doesn’t necessarily look the same as it did on the previous page. Reconciliation after a big falling out feels wonderful and reassuring and safe, but the world keeps turning.
We don’t get to see the moment that Hal walks out, but what can we even imagine Grace’s reaction is in that moment?
[It’s] definitely is fun to imagine. I think it’s not subtle. It is a non-subtle reaction.
It does seem like Grace is taking the power back by her address at the top of the G7. How do you see that power shift, especially once Kate gets up?
Power is a very slippery thing, and I think that you see in the behavior of anybody who has it, they’re very very aware that they may not have it for very long, and I think we see in the behavior of a lot of public figures what happens when you know you might lose it at any second, and and some people respond to that by grabbing the world by the throat and wringing its neck, and some people are able to look at their responsibilities outside of how much power they wield. I like to think that I know what I would do in a position like that, but I don’t pretend that I would get it right.
I have to take a moment to ask about Stuart and Eidra. You gave them so many heartfelt moments. How did you want to craft their relationship this season and what will it look like after Stuart was recalled?
We’re looking at three different relationships in very different points of their evolution. Grace and Todd have been together for almost twice as long as Kate and Hal, Stuart and Eidra are looking at what it might mean to turn this relationship into something that’s going to expand over time, and for me, it’s just a lot of fun to look at those dynamics next to each other and how do you problem solve when you’ve been together for 20 years versus six months.
With Stuart and Eidra, we get to see what’s the first time they’re brutally honest with each other. What’s the first time they have to logistically problem solve? What does that look like? They’re dealing with all of these firsts, and they’re also encountering real differences in terms of how they see the world. Some couples learn to deal with that in the beginning, and set up a structure for their relationship where there’s a way to solve those problems, and some people never get the hang of it. It’s not obvious that Kate and Hal ever figured out how to do that. In Grace and Todd, we tend to see us a slightly better set of problem-solving tools, but it’s not obvious this season that they’re so much healthier than anybody else.
It was great to see Billie and Stuart back together. How did you see their push and pull by the end of the season?
That’s its own kind of marriage, right? They[‘re a] work couple in their own way. They started out working together. They came up together, and they believed they were very much rowing in the same direction. They’re navigating the questions of what does it mean when you go different ways and pursue different agendas, and does the personal relationship endure through that? Does he think she changed? Does he think something has happened to her in the White House that’s fundamentally changed who she is, or is it just that he has the luxury of having a kind of a smaller world to look at. Hers has a whole much more complicated set of priorities.
The end changes everything. What are you looking forward to exploring next season and in this next iteration of the show?
Are we going to do another season? Are you giving me a green light?
I would sure hope so.
“The Diplomat” Seasons 1-4 are now streaming on Netflix.
The post ‘The Diplomat’ Creator on Finally Tackling ‘Moral Toxic Waste’ in Trump Era: ‘Not Asking Those Questions Just Felt Absurd’ appeared first on TheWrap.
