When Erykah Badu unveiled her highly anticipated sophomore album, “Mama’s Gun,” to the world on Nov. 18, 2000, she was in a period of transition.
The generational talent was three years removed from “Baduizm,” her paradigm-shifting first album, which debuted at No. 2 on the Billboard 200 and won two Grammys. She was also learning how to balance being a mother for the first time and her newfound, flourishing career. Meanwhile, she’d recently gotten out of a high-profile relationship with her son’s father, André “3000” Benjamin.
“I don’t remember what was going through my head,” Badu says when I ask her about her mindset going into “Mama’s Gun” and whether she felt pressure. “I just knew it was the beginning of my career and I was happy to be in that sport.”
Badu treated “Mama’s Gun” like a “metaphorical diary” — as she does with all of her music — allowing herself to release everything that she was experiencing in real time. The result was a stylistically adventurous, lyrically bold and vulnerable 14-track offering that further solidified her as a leading voice in R&B and hip-hop. Anchored by the singles “Bag Lady” (a poignant warning to let go of your emotional baggage) and the self-discovering “Didn’t Cha Know” (co-produced by J Dilla), Badu showed critics and fans alike that she would never allow herself to be trapped in a creative box — an ethos that she’s carried throughout her 30-year career.
Badu is celebrating the 25th anniversary of that seminal album with the Mama’s Gun ’25: The Return of Automatic Slim Tour, which kicks off Friday at the Hollywood Bowl and closes in her hometown, Dallas, on Dec. 10. The Los Angeles show will feature a guest performance from Buffalo-bred Griselda Records rapper Westside Gunn, whom Badu says is “a great influence” for her and a friend.
The anniversary event arrives just weeks after Badu wrapped up another tour — this time in support of her first album in a decade. (Her latest release, “But You Caint Use My Phone,” which she called a mixtape but was actually an album, she says, dropped in 2015.) “Abi & Alan,” which is a collaborative effort between her and mega hip-hop producer the Alchemist, isn’t out yet, but Badu says it’s coming “soon.” (The duo gave fans a taste of what’s to come with its lead single, “Next to You,” which dropped in June.)
“It was the best thing that happened in this decade for me,” Badu says about performing “Abi & Alan” live for a phone-and-camera-less audience that was hearing the album for the first time. “I almost didn’t want to go back to ‘Mama’s Gun’ after performing those songs because it is my evolution.”
After a long day of rehearsals — Badu handles all of her own music direction, set design and everything in between — Badu spoke to The Times from her home in Dallas, where she recently built a mesmerizing portal (more on that later). We discussed the impact of “Mama’s Gun,” the lesson she took away from “Abi & Alan” and the creative practice that is inspiring her these days.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
In a previous interview, you said you felt like you had something to prove with “Mama’s Gun.” What did you feel like you needed to prove at that point and to whom?
I don’t remember what I had to prove or to whom. I guess I always have something to prove to myself. That no matter what, I can persevere. It doesn’t matter what happens in life. No matter how sick or heartbroken or distracted I am by love or children, the flow just never stops. It’s something that came with my head.
From “Didn’t Cha Know” to “Bag Lady” and “Cleva,” there’s so many bangers on “Mama’s Gun” that people still bump today. I have to say that my personal favorite is “Green Eyes,” which wrecks me to my core each time that I hear it.
Yeah, those [are] three movements of heartbreak of any kind. It could be a lover. It could be a job. It could something simple that you didn’t succeed in. There are three levels of that realization that we have to go through if we choose to. They are first denial like, “Did I really f— that up?” And then the second is [smacks lips], “I’m cool. I didn’t f— it up. This is not real. This is not happening.” And the third stage is always surrender. “OK, I’ll let it go and I’m OK to move on and get back on the horse.” You know, “Green Eyes.”
Yeah, you can really feel the shift of those stages in the way that you structured the song. What comes up for you when you think about “Mama’s Gun” turning 25 years old?
It feels like yesterday. It’s like I live continuously in the moment of where I am. I hear people always talking about having a therapeutic way to get through traumas and things like that. I just choose to handle the s— as it comes. If it comes up, I’m facing it now and I’m going to feel it now and I’m going to correct my ways. I’m going to do it now so that I don’t have to have baggage. “Bag Lady” helped me with that. I wrote that song to my future self. I really didn’t have an awful lot of baggage. I was a very young person, but as I started to gather things, I remember those words that I said to myself.
Is this the first time you’re celebrating the anniversary of one of your albums with a multi-city tour?
I think you do those kind of things when you get to the 20s. This is the first time I’ve had a 25-year anniversary, for sure. I think I did something at 20, but I didn’t mess with the 10s and 15 years because I didn’t even feel like time had passed. I didn’t feel like I was even deserving of some anniversary. Even today, I feel like my best work is still inside of me. I don’t think of it in terms of years, I think of it in terms of progression like, have I moved away from the “Mama’s Gun” messages? And a lot of them, like I said, I wrote as a young person and I haven’t even hit some of the messages yet in myself and dug deep into them. So it’s been 25 years, but there’s still 14 songs and 14 messages to get through for me.
Westside Gunn is the special guest for the L.A. show. Did you make the decision for him to join you? If so, why and what do you love about his music?
I make all the decisions in my creative life, every single one, from the way I dress to the way I film. I’m a director. I am a creative. I run my own social media. I have no management. I make all of the decisions, to be really frank and clear. Westside Gunn is a great influence for me. I love his cadence, his hustle, his freedom, his words, his confidence and the s— go hard. The production and the music that he chooses is what sets him apart from not only people in hip-hop but people in his own crew. I mean, he’s dynamic and he’s my friend. He’s actually on the “Abi & Alan” album as well. He performed with us live at the “Abi & Alan” concert series. We are kindred spirits and it makes sense that Westside Gunn and “Mama’s Gun” become Mama’s Westside Gunn for L.A.
Speaking of “Abi & Alan,” you and the Alchemist recently wrapped up a tour for that. What was it like performing an album that — aside from the single — people haven’t heard yet?
It was the best thing that happened in this decade for me. I almost didn’t want to go back to “Mama’s Gun” after performing those songs because it is my evolution. It’s who I am now and it was perfect in every way. Very minimal, small rooms, no cameras, no phones. The press even had to have disposable cameras. I didn’t want any of that to get out because I wanted to perform that album in the spirit in which I made it. I did it that way first before I dropped the album, which is coming soon. I’m a live performer and I think get the point across very well. In live performance, you get to create a moment, and I got to do that 10 times. We only had 10 shows. As a recording artist, you get to perfect that moment. You’re spending multiple days on a song, leaving an impact or an imprint in your patchwork of time. “Mama’s Gun” is one piece of fabric in this quilt I’m building, and “Abi & Alan,” I feel like is a really big piece of it and it was amazing. I’m in love.
Did you unlock or learn anything new about yourself through the process of making “Abi & Alan?”
I’ll tell you what I learned. I was scrolling on Instagram and I saw an article about a company called Tupperware. Tupperware created a piece of houseware so good that no one had to rebuy it, so they consequently went [bankrupt] in the last few years. When you make an album like “Mama’s Gun,” something like that, and its so good for everyone, they don’t want to hear anything else, especially live. They come for one certain thing. I learned that that’s not true. I learned that in performing the whole body of work, “Abi & Alan,” from beginning to end with no previous material, the people were just as excited and ready and formulated and there, present.
You have your hands in so many things and you’re always creating. What else is exciting you these days — either professionally or personally?
I like building things. I like working with wood. I’m burning wood and making what they call shou sugi ban. It’s a Japanese style of burning wood to preserve it from fire, insects and things. It’s so beautiful. You burn it and char it, and you use it to build fences or whatever it is you’re trying to build. I like to get home everyday and build things. I’m building an aviary. I have birds in the back of the house. I built a portal the other day. Hopefully it works and I can go to another dimension every now and then [laughs]. It’s actually a round gate that leads from one part of my yard to the other, Asian-style. And I’m cleaning out my house, getting rid of things that no longer serve me … I’m building up a resistance against people who take advantage of my kindness. Being emphatic and forgiving. I’m intelligent to know that people have things they’ve gone through in life. Kind of like what I sing about. I am just kind of building onto my own body, spirit, mind and heart. Building on my practices. One form of work is art and getting the show together, and being a parent, cooking and helping. The other building is making sure that I keep the five solid doctors in my life: doctor sun, doctor exercise, doctor sleep, doctor nutrition and doctor spirit. It’s a change to fit all those things in with the schedule, but I like building on that and finding ways to fit that into my life. And I try to play as hard as I work. So yeah, building is my other hobby.
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