MSNBC Stars Break Down the 2024 Election Endgame—and Threats Ahead

“Genuinely, to my core, I feel 50-50,” says MSNBC host Chris Hayes, “and just at the most basic emotional and psychological level, it’s kind of the best way to go into it.”

The historically close race between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump has anchors, like Hayes, accepting the uncertainty of election night and the possibility that the election, as in 2020, might not be called for several days while results continue to be tallied. It’s a guiding philosophy I’ve similarly heard from competitors at CNN, anchors at corporate sibling NBC, and from fellow MSNBC hosts Stephanie Ruhle, Ari Melber, and Alex Wagner, who stressed the need for “patience” and being “mindful about how we think about this extraordinary moment we find ourselves in.”

In addition to discussing MSNBC’s prime-time coverage, which kicks off at 6 p.m. Tuesday, I spoke to the four hosts more broadly about this momentous period in American politics, the mix of exhaustion and motivation among voters, and the threat of Trump disrupting the democratic process. Trump “has tried to steal an election,” notes Melber, “and is openly talking about stealing this one.”

This interview has been lightly edited for style and clarity.

Vanity Fair: Where is the race generally? Obviously there’s been an intense news cycle in the last couple of weeks regarding both campaigns’ media blitzes. I’m wondering if you wanted to sound off on whether you think anything that’s happened, or could happen, will move the needle at this point.

Chris Hayes: I do think the MSG rally, and I do think the specific “Puerto Rico is a floating island of garbage” joke cut through. No one knows what cuts through and what doesn’t. We’re all operating in this very weird universe in which competition for attention is so fierce that it’s very hard to tell what people are getting and what they are not. But clearly, that got through.

Stephanie Ruhle: I do think that the needle moved this week. Even if you watched Kamala Harris, her closing remarks at the Ellipse were super strong from a technical standpoint in policy, but also an overarching sense of unity. I do think it moved the needle for lots of people in that [business] space who aren’t necessarily raising their hands saying, you know, “I’m with her,” but they know the threat of tariffs and it’s going to be [Donald] Trump picking winners and losers. This was definitely a positive week for her…. There’s been much disappointment that more business leaders haven’t stepped up and said anything about Trump and comments that are likened to fascism. If Kamala Harris wins this election and Trump doesn’t accept the results, I think we’re going to see a lot of prominent people who have been quiet step up and say, “Enough is enough, we need to respect the outcome of this election.”

You all have been covering legal challenges by and against Trump for years, but [the GOP] has already launched some legal challenges in battleground states, setting up a scheme to essentially undermine whatever the results may be. How are you approaching that coverage?

Ari Melber: We want to be as fair as possible and follow what actually happens, not only the rhetoric or the past examples. In 2020, the Trump team started with law and ended with crime. They started filing lawsuits which they have every right to do, and they ended with a crime spree on January 6. Which is why it is so striking to see his opponent, Harris, sort of reclaim that site in her closing speech. We want to cover everything without feeling any bias or debt to what’s come before. Both campaigns can file lawsuits when results are close in a state, we often see lawsuits of efforts for recounts from any set of campaigns. What’s different here is what everyone knows, which is that one candidate, Trump, has tried to steal an election, and is openly talking about stealing this one.

Hayes: We’re in a pretty novel situation here, which I think is actually great for the expectations and approach…. Genuinely, to my core, I feel 50-50 and just at the most basic emotional and psychological level, it’s kind of the best way to go into it. I just don’t have expectations at my deepest being because the data is just basically clashing that this is a toss-up.

Alex, you spent a lot of time on the ground this campaign season and in spin rooms after political events. Do you have any insight into how people on the ground are looking at the tightness of this race?

Alex Wagner: I agree with Chris’s point. It’s a good thing, especially as it concerns Trump telegraphing that he’s going to win and could very well try to steal the election again. I don’t think his red-mirage phenomenon is going to be as useful to him this cycle as it was in 2020, just because people know that it’s going to take time…. We should go into it at the very least with that expectation so that we have patience and we are mindful about how we think about this extraordinary moment we find ourselves in. On the ground, I think undecided voters that I talk to are overwhelmed. Key parts of each voting bloc are overwhelmed because they’ve been targeted relentlessly. There’s a huge amount of exhaustion on the part of voters in this election. It’s been like an emotional roller coaster for Democrats in particular, and I think the last three months have been a test of emotional fortitude.

Ruhle: They’re tired and they’re motivated to vote. And that’s new. Because we’re so divided, or because people are so angry, they’re fired up and they’re voting, and that is a good thing for our country.

Does the tiredness of the climate stem from the fact that this is sort of a quasi rematch, in a sense? Obviously a lot has changed in the last three months. Or is it just exhaustion over an intense political climate in the country?

Hayes: Because Donald Trump has been ceaselessly dominating attention and public discourse for nine years in the most exhausting way possible. And it’s unbelievably fatiguing. I think the one genuine talent he has, well he’s got a few, but the biggest one is persistence. Persistence can get you very far in life, not taking no for an answer, which I think is a thing that people sometimes say about people like in a good way, but I think it has a real moral ambiguity. Sometimes not taking no for an answer is criminal. But one thing you could say about the guy is he doesn’t take no for an answer, whether it’s in a dressing room in Bergdorf Goodman, or it’s in the run-up to the peaceful transition of power. And so that is, I find, personally exhausting, and the audience does too.

Wagner: We need to clock better as, you know, media and journalists, the degree to which Trump and this entire moment and American politics has divided communities and families, and the level of emotional exhaustion…. It has been extraordinarily divisive. Even if it isn’t the thing Trump said yesterday, it’s just Trumpism and MAGA-ism. This chasm that’s opened up has had a profound effect on an already lonely country, a country where communities have been increasingly disassociated from each other…. No matter what happens after November 5, we’re still the United States of America. Getting through the elections is its own challenge, but then figuring out how to be together again is something I think people want, but it’s going to be a real challenge, especially with a really tight election.

Melber: We always have mixed feelings when there’s negative news that brings everyone together…. Election night is the ultimate version of that. And this election, to somewhat echo everyone, is unprecedented. January 6 was unprecedented. Trump is unprecedented. The screenwriters, or whatever analogy you want to use, just melted down this year.