With Shōgun, the epic drama series from FX based on James Clavell’s 1975 novel, veteran Japanese actor Hiroyuki Sanada’s work pushed past any subtitle barriers to earn the show a massive worldwide following that includes 25 Emmy nominations in total. Sanada stars as Lord Toranaga, the ultimate strategist, whose intricate web ultimately served to unify 17th century Japan. And Sanada was not unfamiliar with the character, since in 1989’s Oda Nobunaga, he had played Tokugawa Ieyasu, the real-life man who inspired the Toranaga character.
Sanada’s epic career began at the age of just six and he is best known internationally for films like The Last Samurai, Speed Racer and Bullet Train, along with the shows Lost and Westworld. Here, he describes what the role meant to him and how, as a first-time producer, he found profound meaning in bringing a culturally-accurate depiction of Japan to life.
DEADLINE: Congratulations on your Emmy nomination. Shōgun has become quite the phenomenon with 25 nominations total. You’ve been on many talk shows, you’ve been to The White House Correspondents’ Dinner…
HIROYUKI SANADA: Oh my goodness. Yes, what an experience for me. It was fun. And I’m in LA now.
We are so happy. The nominations are more than we expected. And yes, I’m so proud of all the crew and cast.
DEADLINE: I remember a few years ago, I was sitting with Michelle Yeoh, who of course you’ve worked with before.
SANADA: Yes, twice!
DEADLINE: It was when Crazy Rich Asians had come out, and I remember she talked about what that meant to her, for it to be such a big hit internationally with an all-Asian cast and how it signaled some change in the industry. Now you have this incredible show that had 9 million viewers in the first six days. It has 99% Rotten Tomatoes score. What has this success meant to you?
SANADA: Yes. It was a great surprise. First of all, we discussed a lot how much percent of Japanese [language] was possible. Finally, we decided on 70% with subtitles. It was a kind of gamble. But also, we believed in the audience—their knowledge, intelligence and imagination. And then, yeah, it worked. So, the reaction was more than we expected. But we were so happy about that, and we believe that this was the best way to introduce our culture to the world, as authentic. So yes, our decision was right, I believe.
DEADLINE: I remember when Bong Joon-ho talked about Parasite, he called subtitles, “the 1-inch tall barrier”. We’re finally starting to see that barrier come down.
SANADA: Yes. Especially this past 10 years, it’s changed a lot. 20, 30 years ago, it never would have happened like this, I believe. But luckily it changed.
DEADLINE: You’re a producer on Shōgun, and you played a big part in ensuring accuracy culturally and historically for the show. I know you’ve been in a lot of U.S. productions before that depicted elements of Japanese culture. How did this experience compare?
SANADA: Yeah, I’ve grown up in Japan since I was a child actor, and then I learned a lot from the directors, actors. And then, I’ve done a lot of Samurai movies, including this character Toranaga’s model, Lord Ieyasu. I’ve done that. And then Ishida Mitsunari, the [real-life] model role for the character of Ishido Kazunari (played by Takehiro Hira), I’ve done twice in Japan. So, luckily, I could learn about the background of this story. And also, after I came to Hollywood, including The Last Samurai, every single show or movie, I’ve done consulting about our culture. So, how to explain to the Western crew, every single project trained me in how to correct our culture. So, all that experience worked for me on Shōgun as a producer. I’ve done everything by myself before, but now, I’ve got a title of producer, and then I could hire Japanese Samurai drama specialists for each department: costume, wig, props, for every department. So, I had a team for the first time—so, much easier and smoother. I could be joined between the Japanese crew and cast with the Western crew and cast. So, I put all my experience in my life into Shōgun, as an actor, and as a consultant for the past 20 years.
It was an amazing experience for me. After preparing everything, when I was standing in front of the camera, I could relax and just enjoy, like a reward. I was just acting, and then enjoying it, just as a character, being there and reacting to others. So, it was the best balance for me.
DEADLINE: Your character, Toranaga, is one of the most impressive strategists I’ve ever seen on screen. As you said, you’ve previously played Tokugawa Ieyasu, the real man Toranaga was based upon, but what about playing Toranaga stayed with you?
SANADA: I read a novel about Lord Ieyasu when I was kid—13 or 14 years old or something. And when I started training as an actor, I also read that Ieyasu story. I’ve learned from him. More than strategy, it was patience. Patience. If I choose one word for him, it’s patience. He waited and waited. The timing. He never rushed. He taught me that feeling when I was boy. And then I used that for my life. [I thought] ‘Don’t think about 20s or 30s success, think further away, the 40s or 50s, until then, just go step-by-step, training and learning. Don’t rush.’ So Ieyasu taught me that. And now I’m telling his story to the world. The young audiences— Japanese or Western audiences—the kids can feel something like that. Life is a long way walking. Don’t rush.
As a child actor, I watched a lot of actors. Some of them got success in the early 20s and then were gone. And some of them were slow starters, but after, in their 40s and 50s, became a great actor, a respected actor, which is the best. I thought, when I was kid, ‘Let’s take the second one.’ Ieyasu taught me that thing. So, playing his role means returning to him. He plays a long chess game. And checkmate, finally.
DEADLINE: The show was orginally intended to be a limited series. Then, it was renewed for another two seasons, moving it into the Emmy Drama Series category. Season 2 will go beyond the source material from James Clavell’s novel. Can you hint at where you feel this might be going? What might Toranaga do next?
SANADA: I never thought about Season 2, because we used the novel in Season 1 already. So, I accepted it as a miniseries, of course. And also, as an actor, I thought, ‘I’ve done my best. Done.’ But, as a producer, keeping this platform for the Japanese crew and cast for the next generation, it’s a very important thing. And, when I started living in LA 20 years ago, one of my missions was, I felt some big wall between East and West at that time. So, in our generation, I want to break this wall, and then create the bridge for the next generation. That’s my mission.
And now, we’ve got this big success, and a great opportunity to create more seasons. Why would I stop? Only in my opinion as an actor? No, no, no, no. ‘Producer me’ taught ‘actor me’, “You should continue do it for the next generation, of course.” And then that’s why I decided to keep this opportunity for Season 2 and 3. And it’s a great opportunity for the young actors and crew.
So, we don’t have any novels anymore, but it means for the writers a kind of freedom. We have history. We have real models, and we know what happened. So many episodes are there in the history. So, I hope the writers will enjoy that freedom. These kind of things are already in our DNA, I believe. So, with respect for [Clavell], his style, they create original stories freely. I’m so curious, and I cannot wait to read the first draft from them.
DEADLINE: Do you know when you’re going to start shooting?
SANADA: We are hoping sometime next year. Aiming for next summer, hopefully. The writers’ room is already running, and they’re creating all day, every day. So, I’m curious about their vision for Japanese history and culture. Of course, we are creating together. So, when I read the first draft, I check our cultural things, and cut misunderstandings, or stereotypical things. I put Japanese eyes on the script. So much fun. It’s another long journey started.
DEADLINE: What’s your all-time dream role?
SANADA: Always any role I’ve never done before. Like, Romeo, Hamlet, Othello, and finally King Lear.. And then other [roles would] need more research and learning. So, would make me fresh every year.
DEADLINE: You mentioned Shakespearean characters. You were the first Japanese actor to act with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and you received an honorary MBE award for that work.
SANADA: Yeah, it was the biggest challenge in my life. My first time speaking Shakespearean English in front of an audience, I was nervous, of course, but it was a great experience for me. I learned a lot. I learned how mixing cultures made something new no one had ever seen. It’s difficult, but important and interesting. So, maybe that’s why I’m here now.
DEADLINE: What’s been the most meaningful and moving feedback you’ve had about Shōgun from fans?
SANADA: Understanding our culture deeply. Sometimes more than the young generation of Japanese. They’re so curious, and then they’re so eager to understand. And then even with 70% Japanese [language], again, the viewers felt our character and emotion from our acting. So, their cheering taught me that acting is acting. And then language is just a language. People can feel from the acting. So, again, it’s good strength and energy for the making of Season 2 or 3 and any other project from now on. Language is not a big barrier anymore.
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