When asked recently what he thought should be the first question at CNN’s Joe Biden–Donald Trump presidential debate on Thursday, ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos had a succinct answer: “Who won the last election?”
The moment speaks to how unusual this debate will be — and the challenge for moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.
That has been apparent in recent days given the attacks coming from Trump and his allies, who have gone after Tapper and Bash as CNN figures who are biased against MAGA. On Monday, the situation reached the point where the network issued a statement defending the two.
The pre-debate CNN bashing coming from Team Trump, though, is hardly a surprise, as he has lambasted the moderators in the past two election cycles.
More vexing for the moderators may be just what questions to ask, and how and when to ask them. The times demand not just the typical issues of a presidential debate, like the economy, foreign policy and immigration, but ones that have to do with the existential nature of this campaign.
Nearly a quarter century ago, during the 2000 Bush-Gore debates, the focus was on concepts like putting “lock boxes” around Social Security; now one of the central concerns is on the future of democracy.
In speeches, Biden has attacked Trump for his role in January 6th and his vow to be a “dictator” on day one. In rallies and on social media, Trump has made unfounded claims that the president acted in banana republic-style fashion to orchestrate Trump’s New York conviction.
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“I don’t think of it as an either/or, but it is not a normal year in any sense of the word normal,” said Alan Schroeder, the author of Presidential Debates: Risky Business on the Campaign Trail and professor emeritus at Northeastern University. “I think there will be things about accepting election results, political retribution, some of the things that Trump has been saying that are a pretty radical break from the past.”
But Schroeder also said that it was important to be mindful of the audience, a number of whom will be tuning in to the campaign for the first time. Many may be seeing the debates in the short clips and statements that travel on social media.
“The people who will decide the outcome of the election are those who don’t pay a lot of attention to politics. Those are the persuadable voters. There aren’t a lot of them, but they will determine the outcome here,” Schroeder said.
Tapper and Bash were not available for comment, and have been off air this week as they prepare. But their selection as moderators was not a surprise, given that they presided over a Republican presidential primary debate and have extensive experience via weekday and Sunday shows.
That said, they will be under intense scrutiny not just from Trump and the right, but from Biden and others on the left. With the 90-minute runtime, every question asked will leave out ones not asked, displeasing some constituency. Any fact-checks will be weighed against moments where there were none at all.
USA Today’s Susan Page, who moderated the vice presidential debate in 2020, said, “This presidential debate is of really particular importance because we are so divided as a nation. The collection of swing voters and swing states has gotten transparently small, and both sides see democracy itself at stake in November. All of that just raises the pressure and the importance of this debate.”
She added, “People will be drawing conclusions about fundamental things: Is Joe Biden too old to be president? They’re going to be watching that for 90 minutes to figure that out. Does Donald Trump not have the character to be president? That is something voters are going to be able to think about as they watch Donald Trump for 90 minutes.”
Page is the author of the recent book The Rulebreaker: The Life & Times of Barbara Walters, about the groundbreaking journalist who was the second woman to moderate a presidential debate, in 1976. When Walters moderated again in 1984, she stood out for her admonishments to the candidates to stick to the rules, a bit unusual for the time.
Page said that in preparing in 2020, she talked to other moderators, including Chris Wallace, then with Fox News, who had just moderated the first presidential debate that cycle, which went off the rails as Trump repeatedly interrupted Biden.
Page said that in talking to previous moderators, “The best advice I got was to think about what it is you want to achieve, and what I hoped to achieve was engaging Americans who might just beginning to tune into the campaign to get a look at these two candidates and decide who they wanted to trust with their vote. That’s different from trying to get them to admit something they’ve never did before. It is a much broader kind of goal. And that’s one reason…it increases the imperative to stay out of the way. It raises the bar for doing any fact-checking.”
Past moderators emphasize how much the debates should be about the candidates, not themselves. That actually makes the assignment different from their day jobs, i.e., trying to pin down a guest for an answer on a Sunday talk show.
Bob Schieffer, who moderated debates in 2004, 2008 and 2012, said, “When the debate is at its best is when the two candidates ask each other questions, and ask follow-ups. I think the moderator’s job is to make it as easy as you can for the candidates, because what is so valuable about a debate is you learn more about a candidate than just what their positions are … the way they answer the questions, their demeanor and how they respond under pressure. If the debate is a good one, those are the things that would come out.”
Schieffer also said valuable moments come “when the candidates are able to fact-check each other. That is when it is the most powerful, and that is when you are able to learn more.”
What happened in 2020, though, was pure chaos, as viewers could capture little of substance from the candidates given so many moments when Trump talked over Biden. Biden finally told Trump, “Will you shut up man?” In the aftermath, Wallace said that he initially thought that Trump’s interruptions would lead to a real engagement of the candidates. But that notion quickly dissipated as Trump would not stop, leading to a debate that Wallace called “awful.”
This time, the Biden campaign demanded that mics be muted when the other candidate is speaking, along with strict time limits. That could help Tapper and Bash keep the proceedings moving and under control. It remains to be seen if those rules are so rigid that they take out some of the spontaneity, although it is hard to see that as much of a concern with Trump on the stage.
Schieffer said Wallace wasn’t to blame for the chaotic first 2020 debate. “He did the best he could. The fact that they’re going to have mics that will be turned off when they are not recognized — I kind of wish it wasn’t necessary but it probably is necessary. And I think it is probably going to be a good thing. We will hear more from the candidates.”
Tapper and Bash will have other rules to enforce. Each candidate will be given two minutes to answer a question from the moderators, and one minute to respond or offer a rebuttal. If someone goes over that time, it will be up to the moderators when to cut them off. It’s also still possible that Trump could interrupt — just without a mic but loud enough to throw Biden off.
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“There are so many unknowns in a debate with Trump, and the moderators, I am sure, are preparing for any contingency,” Schroeder said.
Via email, Marvin Kalb, part of the panel at the second 1984 presidential debate, wrote that his advice to the moderators would be to “stay cool, be prepared to be flexible on enforcing rules. Because otherwise they will appear to be battling Trump and letting Biden off the hook.” Another caution for the two: Be prepared for a “direct Trump assault on CNN and them.”
Schieffer offered high praise for Bash and Tapper, and noted that with two moderators, as opposed to someone going solo, it could be an asset to keep things in order.
As much as the debate is different this cycle, just the fact that one looks to be happening at all is a good thing, Schieffer said. With both campaigns expressing their displeasure with the Commission on Presidential Debates, which had organized them since 1988, it looked as if there was a distinct possibility that this cycle would see none at all.
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The debate also is ever more important coming at a time where there is so much skepticism and distrust of news sources and siloing of audiences into their own ideological spectrums.
“It’s so difficult now, because people don’t know where to turn,” Schieffer said. “They don’t know who to trust. Political insiders do. You and I know. But a lot of people, they don’t have the time to spend to find what they believe is true, a place where they will find the truth. So I think in this case, when you are on live television, it is pretty hard to pull any tricks on people, and especially when you got a moderator there and the other candidate to call them out.”
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