On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
- Sen. Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia
- Rep. Dan Crenshaw, Republican of Texas
- Massachusetts Gov. Maura Healey, a Democrat
- USAA CEO Juan Andrade
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Americans are losing patience as the shutdown continues. But are the politicians in Washington listening?
On the verge of earning the dubious distinction of being the longest government shutdown ever, Americans are feeling the pain. Benefits of social safety net programs like SNAP and Head Start are in limbo. Air traffic controllers are now working without pay, and staffing shortages are causing flight delays affecting millions.
Furloughed government workers are trying to figure out how to make ends meet. The USDA oversees SNAP food assistant benefits. Agency Secretary Rollins put it bluntly just hours before they were frozen:
(Begin VT)
BROOKE ROLLINS (U.S. Secretary of Agriculture): Your government is failing you right now. If you are in a position where you can’t feed your family and you’re relying on that $187 a month for an average family in the SNAP program, that we have failed you.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not so fast, corrected Speaker Johnson.
(Begin VT)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE JOHNSON (R-Louisiana): Clarifying, when she says, “We have failed you,” she means we, the Democrats, OK?
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Democrats see it differently. Former President Barack Obama weighed in from the campaign trail ahead of Tuesday’s off-year elections.
(Begin VT)
BARACK OBAMA (Former President of the United States): The Republicans, who are running Congress right now, they’re not even pretending to solve – try to solve the problem. They’re not even going to work.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our new CBS News survey shows that nearly three-quarters of Americans tell us that Congress is not working to end the shutdown, and disapproval for both parties in Congress, as well as President Trump, are all drawing increasingly negative marks for their handling of it as it has gone on.
(Begin VT)
WOMAN: They’re fighting against each other, but they’re not thinking about us civilized Americans out here. It’s what we’re going through and how we’re suffering.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
Virginia’s home to tens of thousands of federal workers. Democratic Senator Mark Warner will join us, as will Texas Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw and Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
Our CBS News poll out this morning shows that Americans are increasingly concerned about the consequences of the government shutdown; 86 percent now say they’re very or somewhat concerned about the impact on the economy, and more than seven in 10 say they are at least somewhat concerned about the impact on them personally. We will get to the shutdown in a moment.
But we want to begin with a preview of Norah O’Donnell’s exclusive interview with President Donald Trump for 60 Minutes taped Friday in Florida. She asked about his meeting last week with the president of China, Xi Jinping.
(Begin VT)
NORAH O’DONNELL: One potential flash point with China, probably the potential flash point with China, in the coming years is over the issue of Taiwan. The Chinese military is encroaching on Taiwan’s sea lanes, its airspace, its cyberspace.
I know you have said that Xi Jinping wouldn’t dare move militarily on Taiwan while you’re in office, but what if he does? Would you order U.S. forces to defend Taiwan?
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): You will find out if it happens. And he understands the answer to that.
NORAH O’DONNELL: Why not say it?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This never even came up yesterday as a subject. He never brought it up. People were a little surprised at that. He never brought it up, because he understands it, and he understands it very well.
NORAH O’DONNELL: Do you mind if I ask, when you say he understands, why not communicate that publicly to the rest of us? What does he understand?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don’t want to give away – I can’t give away my secrets. I don’t want to be one of these guys that tells you exactly what’s going to happen if something happens.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The other side knows. But I’m not somebody that tells you everything because you’re asking me a question.
But they understand what’s going to happen. And he has openly said and his people have openly said at meetings, we would never do anything while President Trump is president, because they know the consequences.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And stay tuned following football tonight to see more of Norah O’Donnell’s 60 Minutes interview. Again, that’s tonight after football on CBS.
And we’re joined now by Virginia Democratic Senator Mark Warner.
Good morning. Good to have you here.
SENATOR MARK WARNER (D-Virginia): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on this shutdown, we have seen the CEO of all the major airlines come out. The union that represents the air traffic controllers all support the Republican position of just quickly fund the government with a short-term clean spending bill.
The American Federation of Government Employees also echoing that. AFSA, which represents the diplomats our country has, are coming out and saying that. They’re saying, in high-threat posts, they don’t have armored vehicles because they can’t afford to repair them. Cyberattacks are up. Consular officers are paying out of pocket to visit ill or incarcerated Americans.
Medication shipments aren’t arriving. Bills aren’t being paid. At what point does all of this pain and pressure end the shutdown?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I hope it ends it this week. Frankly, I see it from my folks. I was greeting voters yesterday. We have early – early vote for our gubernatorial election.
But I hear people also very angry at this president. I mean, we knew this wasn’t going to end unless Donald Trump was back in the country. He’s now back in the country. He’s got to go ahead and put America first and sit down with us, deal with the health care shortage, deal as well – and to show the just cruelty of this administration, there were $6 billion set aside for SNAP benefits.
He’s had judges say, spend that money. We’re still waiting to see whether the administration wants to appeal that. Get the money out to people in need. Sit down with us, get this resolved this week, and let’s get everybody back to work.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you say it’s going to end this week, does that mean you’re going to see more Democrats cross the aisle and agree to vote for a short-term spending bill?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: What I think it means is that…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Three have.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: What we’ve seen from your polling, everything else, it’s a pox on both your houses.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: We got to put this to bed.
It’s going to require Trump in the room. It’s why the bipartisan conversations so far, I don’t think we’ll ever get to yes, because, unfortunately, my Republican colleagues can’t move on anything without a Trump sign-off.
Trump has spent enough time going out there now trying to audition for a Nobel Prize, running around the world. Come back and put America first. Sit down and let’s get this resolved. It can be done in an hour, using Donald Trump terms.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, to be clear, what is the Democratic ask at this point to get that? Because Leader Thune said, hey, I will talk to you about health care, open the government first.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: The Democratic ask is, everyone, as of Saturday saw health care rates skyrocket.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: This is an immediate crisis too.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. We’ve blown past that date of November 1.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: They can – we can – but we can deal with this jointly, but it’s going to require the active intervention of the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Meaning you need to see some sort of negotiation on an extension to government health care subsidies before voting to reopen the government?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: We need to say – listen, President Trump has ended up – and I’m a big supporter of Ukraine – has met more with Volodymyr Zelenskyy this year than he’s met with any Democrat.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the ask is the meeting?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: The meeting is, let’s sit down and resolve it. I can’t believe Donald Trump, the great dealmaker of dealmakers, who – at least how he presents himself – sitting down with us, we couldn’t reach an agreement in an hour.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, at this point, what I hear you saying is, you are not willing to cross the aisle for an immediate short-term funding bill that is clean?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: What I…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You still need a negotiation over health care.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: If – the notion of at least sitting down to talk about health care, making sure that $6 billion that is set aside for SNAP benefits gets paid out…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: … so people don’t go hungry, and we get the government reopened, again, the president of the United States has said when he was not president that it’s the responsibility of a president to end shutdowns.
He has paid no attention to the shutdown. He’s stopped his many international trips. Come sit down and let’s get this resolved.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And there’s been outreach, or there hasn’t been outreach?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: There’s lots of conversations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So when you say you’re optimistic – or would you say you’re optimistic about it happening this week?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I think, as – what your poll indicated, people are a pox on both your houses at this point.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Get the darn thing open. Deal with the health care cliff. Don’t let people go hungry, when we’ve got money set aside on SNAP. That can all be accomplished. Sooner, the better.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be talking about those food stamps later in the program.
I want to ask you about your national security portfolio. Just overnight, there was another U.S. strike on an alleged drug boat. I know you have been concerned that Democrats are being excluded, particularly from a key meeting that happened this past week, with only Republicans in the room.
Secretary Hegseth was asked shortly after your press conference by our Ellee Watson of CBS about his plans to share evidence with Congress. Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Defense Secretary): Oh, we are presenting it to Congress. We have time and time again. On a bipartisan basis, they have been given the evidence directly.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He says it’s been given. So is your complaint that the evidence is not sufficient, or you disagree with the…
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR MARK WARNER: The secretary of defense doesn’t tell the truth on this matter. We asked for the legal opinion back in July, when it was first written. We had been promised it time and again.
The secretary of state, my former colleague and friend Marco Rubio, looked me in the eye nine days ago and said: “Mark, you’re going to get it right away.”
We still didn’t get the legal opinion. And then a group of random Republican senators was shared on a partisan basis, what is the president’s understanding of why these – why it’s legal to take these actions? That – you know, Margaret, that is not the way the system is supposed to work.
When you further partisan national security, when we’re putting troops in harm’s way – I got an aircraft carrier from Norfolk that’s in the Caribbean right now. How do I answer the families of those sailors about whether this operation is even legal?
This document needs to be shared with every member of the Senate this week, so that, as we get into this discussion about war powers, we’ve got the basis of how the administration is claiming that it’s legal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know the administration says this isn’t about war powers, that the president has authorities under Title 2.
But let me read to you – because the White House knew you were coming on, they reached out to us yesterday to assert they’ve provided six bipartisan briefings to members or staff, including your staff, plus the Gang of Eight. A senior administration official also said, classified documents were made available.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: There were no classified documents made available to the Gang of Eight members until after a partisan briefing was made to Republicans only. That is not the way our system is supposed to work.
If you want to put Americans in harm’s way, it needs to be done on a bipartisan basis. My Republican colleagues, many of them afterwards, said, oh, yes, that was not really good.
Well, I wish they would have got up and walked out of the damn room, because everyone knows partisanship should not be involved in these national security matters, particularly when we’re putting our soldiers and sailors in harm’s way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it wasn’t just you. The Senate Armed Services Committee chairman, Roger Wicker, a Republican and his Democratic colleague, Jack Reed, said they have twice written to Secretary Hegseth asking for execute orders specifically, legal justifications, and the list of terror organizations tied to these strikes.
They don’t have that information, and they have oversight of the military.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I rest my case.
This is what we’re all saying.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What…
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Come clean. And the fact is, if, as the administration says, these are all bad guys, and…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: … and we – there are all drugs on these boats, interdict these boats and show the world.
Listen, the Maduro government in Venezuela – and, by the way, none of – none of this legal opinion has anything to do with the Venezuelan government. Maduro is a bad guy. We should have pushed harder on him when the people of Venezuela voted him out under President Biden. Biden didn’t do enough.
The drugs are all cocaine. It has nothing to do with fentanyl. If you are going to try to make a case to the American public, make it publicly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Don’t do this and then try to hide the legal justification and give it out only on a partisan basis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does your Republican colleague, the chair of the Intelligence Committee, Tom Cotton, hear you on this? Is he working with you on this?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: To his credit, he did not attend this Republican-only briefing that took place earlier this week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And neither did Roger Wicker, Armed Services.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Right. The notion here is…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so, the White House and the Republicans are in disagreement on this?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Well, there is not a lack of disagreement from members of the Senate that we’ve been asking for this legal justification for months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: And they are now hiding the ball and only giving it out on a partisan basis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Senator Warner, thank you for your time today.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the secretary of transportation, Sean Duffy, who joins us this morning from Far Hills, New Jersey.
Welcome to Face the Nation.
SEAN DUFFY (U.S. Transportation Secretary): Hey. Thanks, Margaret. Good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So our CBS polling shows that there is real concern among Americans regarding the effect of the shutdown on all transportation. Should Americans also have safety concerns at this point?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Listen, I think that’s a great question. We work overtime to make sure the system is safe. And we will slow traffic down. You’ll see delays. We’ll have flights canceled to make sure the system is safe.
But we have to be honest. When we have controllers, where we have shortages and towers and TRACONs doing two jobs, does it add more risk into the system? Sure, it does. But, again, we’re always managing that. Again, we don’t – we don’t want crashes. We want people to go safely.
And so we will slow and stop traffic if we don’t think we can manage it in a way that keeps people safe as they go from point A to point B.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I did see that the FAA said, up in New York, 80 percent of air traffic controllers were absent from New York area airports. And, that same day, there was a near miss at La Guardia Airport. One United plane clipped another one.
Was that pilot error or was that linked to some kind of shortage?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Well, you mentioned the shortages of air traffic controllers in the New York airspace. We had a couple days ago three-hour delays throughout New York.
And, again, I haven’t got the readout yet on whether that was pilot error. And, usually, when these planes are – are traveling very close to each other, it’s their job to stay away from one another. That’s not controllers. It’s usually pilot error. But, again, I will – I will have to look and see what directive was given by the air traffic controllers.
But it’s normally the pilot’s responsibility to stay away from aircraft on the tarmac.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So if this shutdown continues, how – I – when does it become an emergency in terms of passenger safety and the safety of those who are trying to, for example, get home for Thanksgiving in a few weeks?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Well, does it become a flight emergency, a safety issue? No. We will stop traffic. So we’re not going to let that happen.
I think the real consequence is, what kind of rolling delays do you have throughout the system, right? We’ve seen problems at L.A., in Dallas, in D.C., Boston, Atlanta. And so I think it’s only going to get worse. We have controllers who some of them are new controllers. We have trainee controllers who are very helpful in the tower. They don’t make a lot of money.
And they’re now confronted. They haven’t had a paycheck for over a month. They’re confronted with a decision. Do I put food on my kids’ table, do I put gas in the car, do I pay my rent, or do I go to work and not get paid?
And they’re making decisions. I have encouraged them all to come to work. I want them to come to work. But they’re making life decisions that they shouldn’t have to make. Let’s open the government up. Let’s pay these people, these young controllers.
Margaret, it’s really important. And I think you’ve covered this. We don’t have the best equipment in our towers and centers for air traffic control. But we have the safest airspace, we have the most efficient airspace because we have the best controllers in the world that work our skies and keep our people safe. They deserve a paycheck.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, given that they are so essential, is there any way the administration can find a pot of money, like seems to be getting found for others like the military…
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … to pay controllers so they can show up to work? Why isn’t the administration able to do that?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Yes. Well, I think that’s a great question.
So we have done all we can. President Trump has done all he can to minimize the pain of the shutdown on the American people. Again, you remember, under Barack Obama’s shutdown, he was trying to gate off open-air monuments in Washington, D.C., and was shutting down parks, just walking paths.
President Trump has tried to make it less painful on the American people. So we’re looking for pots of money to pay essential workers, but there’s really strict rules around what money we can use and how we can use it, and we have to follow the law.
And so we were able to fund essential air service, service to more rural communities. We’ve kept our academy up and running thus far. We don’t have a ton of time, a couple more weeks of that funding. But I don’t have the resources to do that.
And the simple answer is, vote to open the government, negotiate your differences. That’s fine. That’s fair. But, again, these people should be paid. And to say that it’s Donald Trump’s fault, to say he has to find money, when Democrats have said there’s no money for you because we’ve shut the government down, I mean, that’s a contorted analysis.
And Democrats are trying to do that, and I don’t think it really works. Give the money and we’ll pay the controllers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, well, I saw reports that air traffic controllers only received partial pay mid-October, and this past week they missed a paycheck altogether.
So, practically speaking, for those who are in these jobs, would you advise them to pick up part-time work elsewhere?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: No, I’m – I’m clearly asking them, I – come to work. It is your job to come to work, and eventually you will be paid.
But as I have traveled around the country and talked to air traffic controllers, they’ve told me that a lot of them can navigate missing one paycheck. None of them can manage missing two paychecks. And they’re like every American family.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: Everyone watching your show today, as they think about their own finances, how many paychecks can they miss before it becomes real stress, real strife in their life?
And so they’re – at the – next week, they’re going to have – they’re going to get a notice of what their next paycheck is going to be. And if the government doesn’t open, the notice will be another big fat zero, and you’re going to see more of them probably make the decisions of funding their families, putting food on their table, gas in their cars, versus coming into work.
That’s not what I want, but I’m a realist as well, Margaret. These are the decisions of life and survival that these controllers have to make. By the way, it’s the technicians also. We have old equipment. We have technicians that work in the towers that keep the equipment operational.
They’re not getting paid. I have train inspectors who are working to keep our trains running, and running safely. They’re working without pay. I have pipeline inspectors, same thing. Across the system, we have a number of people who are working without pay. We talk about the air traffic controllers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: But I have thousands of employees who are showing up, doing the work and trying to keep this system safe for the American people. All the while, they don’t get paid to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
So you said back on Fox Business on October 9 that “I can’t have people not showing up for work” and that they may be let go. There’s a shortage of 4,000 controllers already. You’re not firing people, are you? You can’t afford to.
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: No, so, when – we’re 2,000 to 3,000 controllers short, but that’s a huge number. And you make an interesting point, because I have tried to surge air traffic controllers into the system through our academy.
Margaret, we’re up 20 percent of controllers through the academy this year alone. It takes them about a year to two to get certified in a tower, but this shutdown is impacting my pipeline of controllers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: And so as – when everyone forgets about air traffic control and the shutdown, I’m going to deal with the consequences of, again, delivering for the American people and getting more controllers in the towers, not less.
And you bring up a good point. We’re already stressed, in that we don’t have enough controllers in our system. And this shutdown, when we have staffing triggers where they’re not coming in because they’re funding their families and food on their tables, that makes it more difficult because we’re already short long. Long-term consequences…
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’re not going to fire them?
SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY: I don’t plan on firing control – no, listen, I have – no, I – again, when they’re making decisions to feed their families, I’m not going to fire air traffic controllers. I have – I have loved them and supported them as they’re trying to go through this process and it’s challenging for them.
They need support. They need money. They need a paycheck. They don’t need to be fired.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Secretary Duffy, thank you for your time this morning.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For more from our latest CBS News poll, we turn to our executive director of elections and surveys, Anthony Salvanto.
So, Anthony, how are people feeling about the economy?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: I will start with prices, because that’s where people tell us they start.
They see prices as still high. They expect prices to keep going up. In some respects, that’s not new. That’s been the case for years, but that’s rather the point. Things haven’t changed. So the ratings are still very low for the economy.
On another front, the stock market’s going up. There’s been an A.I. boom helping fuel that, but people have very mixed views of the U.S. job market. And part of that is, they think A.I. may come along and take their jobs, they tell us, right?
Now, here’s how that all plays politically, Margaret. And that is, on ratings for handling the economy, handling inflation, the president’s ratings have been ticking down through the course of his term and continue to do so. That’s a big reason that he won a year ago. That’s one of the things they – people tell us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The economy.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: On the economy. People tell us today they still rate him on that and on handling immigration, where he does relatively a little bit better, especially with the base.
But what I did was, I asked people, OK, compared to a year ago, do you think the president is trying to keep his campaign promises? And most people say yes. There’s a but there. And there’s a substantial number who say, but his approach isn’t what they expected. And they’re more mixed on that.
So they see, and some give credit for trying. But for things like tariffs as it regards to the economy, the approach is much more mixed. And that underlines all those ratings for him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So we have an election in some states Tuesday. What should we be watching for?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, he will certainly be a factor. I think the question for Democrats as you watch these races is, can they just run against him?
So what I did was, I asked them – asked folks to compare nationally Donald Trump’s approach and what they perceive as the Democrats’ approach. And Donald Trump still leads the Democrats on those measures for the economy and on immigration.
And what that tells you is, it may be, as you watch these races, Democrats can’t just run against Donald Trump. They have got to have ideas of their own. We will see these races as sort of testing labs for what the parties may do ahead of 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be watching that closely.
Anthony Salvanto, busy week for you.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Indeed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, Congressman Dan Crenshaw and Governor Maura Healey of Massachusetts coming up.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.” We turn now to Texas Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who joins us this morning from Humble, Texas.
Welcome to “FACE THE NATION.”
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, I know you’ve been in and out of Washington. But largely, the House members have not been here in town. The House hasn’t voted since September 19th. It will be the seventh consecutive week now that they’ve been working from home. Would you urge Speaker Johnson to bring everyone back to try to break the impasse over government funding?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: It’s up to the speaker. House Republicans and House Democrats coming back to Washington will not break the impasse. Let’s not forget that the House passed a clean CR. And it was a temporary CR, OK.
And, you know, Democrats keep saying, you know, the Republicans have no intent to negotiate. We can’t trust them to want to negotiate if we reopen the government. That’s nonsense. If we – look, if we had passed a year- long CR, I think they could make that argument. That’s usually an indicator that we really don’t want to talk about the budget right now. We want to – we want to kick the can down the road for a year.
But when you pass a very short-term duration CR, a seven-week one –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: It is a clear indication that we intend on continuing those conversations.
So, look, there’s other things we could do. The reason I keep going back is because I work on the Intelligence Committee and I have to do that work from inside D.C. There’s a number of reasons people go back.
But, look, in the end, the Senate has to deal with this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And Senate Democrats just have to reopen the government. It’s that simple. They voted – I don’t know, what is it, 15 times now to keep it closed?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: They wouldn’t even vote to keep federal workers paid. I – that was a crazy lifeline that – that Senator Thune gave them, allowing them to vote – almost having the easy way out, allow them to at least vote to take the pain off of federal workers, and they voted that down, too. I really don’t know what their strategy is at this point. They’re the ones who need to figure this out.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so you heard – perhaps you heard Senator Warner at the top of the program say, you know, conversations are happening this week. He was hoping that there would be some – some end.
On – on your side of the – of the Capitol, you’re saying you don’t see signs of this ending this week?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Don’t see what? Sorry? Yes, I don’t – I don’t – I don’t see us going back into session. I think we would have been notified by now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: But, again, the impasse is not in the House. You know, we passed it out of the House. I realize that – that it was – there was a Democrat (ph) vote there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. But to come to an agreement, which is what he was – the senator was talking about everyone getting together and going to the White House with the president to – to hammer this out, the speaker at least. It doesn’t sound like you have that level of optimism.
But let – let’s talk about the impact where you are. Your district includes parts of Houston. We checked the numbers and it appears 350,000 Houston area families may have some difficulty with their food stamps, these SNAP benefits, because of the standoff. Have you gotten any guidance from the state or from the administration about whether people get food payments this week?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Well, from what I can tell from the administration’s statements, I mean, they’re going to try to use the emergency contingency fund for – on a temporary basis.
But look, the entire – I think there’s about $6 billion in the fund.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Monthly SNAP benefits cost Americans $9 billion. So, that’s – that is a very, very small band-aid. And the only way you’re going to get SNAP benefits back on track is if Democrats vote for our clean CR.
I visit a food bank recently. Yes, they’re – they’re preparing for a huge influx in demand.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: You know, the state could only do so much on this. Every – we – we – all of us can only do so much. There’s – there’s a really simple solution to this, which is, just keep the government open. And, you know, you want to negotiate this very complex health care issue, which is what Democrats say they want. I think they’ve kind of chose it out of randomly and all of a sudden decided to throw this temper tantrum.
But, fine, let’s negotiate it. But you have to do it with the government open and not hold – you’re not holding a gun to our heads. You’re holding a gun to the regular American people’s heads.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are on the Intelligence Committee. You mentioned you had – have had to come back here to view what I assume is classified intelligence. The president confirmed a few weeks back that he had authorized some CIA activity in Venezuela. He didn’t give detail on that. But have you seen any evidence that the U.S. pressure campaign on Nicolas Maduro is working? That all this military hardware that’s being moved around into the region is doing something?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: I can – I can only tell you what I can assume. Look, having been out of session, we aren’t getting the briefings because – because we aren’t there. One of the reasons I keep going back is to look into these things.
The broader question, this is more of a geopolitical question, is the pressure campaign working? Look, deterrence almost always works, especially when you’re dealing with – with, you know, dictators like Maduro. They only listen to one thing, which is power.
And – and Venezuela has been largely left alone by American administrations. The western hemisphere has been left alone.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And I think this president’s taking it much more seriously. Look, the Venezuelan government is a – it’s – it’s – it’s a fake government, right? He ran a rigged election. Everyone knows that. It’s propped up by the Cubans and by the Russians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: They have been in collusion with terrorist groups, like the FARC, for years. It has been an annoyance to countries like Colombia for years. There’s many high-ranking officials in government – in Venezuelan government that are literally under indictment for drug trafficking. It is effectively a narco terrorist state supporting narco terrorists.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Maduro is still in power. Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Maduro, what? I’m sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he still is in – in power. That’s what – we were just talking about that with Senator Warner, the need for more information to go to lawmakers about exactly what the extent is going to be of U.S. military involvement. Would you support U.S. land strikes of Venezuela?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Actually, boots on the ground in Venezuela?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Land strikes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Yes, I mean I think we would have to have a longer conversation about doing something to that extent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: But I think what the – what the president is doing right now is very much within rational legal means, looking at drug boats that we have – that – and people ask, though, do we have the intelligence to really know what these drug boats are and who’s on them? Yes, we do. That I can say. Right. We have – we have multisource intelligence that we – so, we know for sure what we’re – what we’re actually shooting at. And we don’t even shoot at all the targets.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And people say, well, why can’t you just interdict it all? And I say, well, how – how many boats do you think we have? How many boats and helicopters do you think we have?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And do you know how risky an interdiction operation is? You’re going to people – put people’s lives at stake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And, you know, we’ve been doing that for years and it hasn’t worked.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right/
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: So, you do need to try something new, because it is an imminent harm to the United States. And that’s clearly within the president’s authority under Article Two.
So, I don’t ring my hands over what’s gong on right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: We’re talking hypotheticals about invading Venezuela, I mean, that’s not really what we’re talking about right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No. No, no, I was asking about land strikes. But – but let me ask you about something some of your fellow conservatives have been talking quite a lot about, including Mitch McConnell. He’s been concerned about anti-Semitism on the right.
Senator Ted Cruz of Texas said he’s seen more anti-Semitism in the past six months than in his entire life.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VC)
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R-TX): This is a poison, and I believe we are facing an existential crisis in our party and in our country.
If you sit there with someone who says, Adolf Hitler was very, very cool, and that their mission is to combat and defeat global Jewary (ph), and you say nothing, then you are a coward and you are complicit into that evil.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He was specifically referring there to a widely watched interview Tucker Carlson did with far-right commentator and Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes.
Do you share Senator Cruz’s concern about your party?
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: Oh, yes. I’d say Mr. Cruz put it pretty well.
I’ve had a long-standing feud with Tucker Carlson. I’m glad everyone is also waking up now to how bad of a person he is. He’s changed a lot over the last 20 years. You know, hard to say why. But it doesn’t really matter why. I mean you have a guy like Fuentes on your show. You’re – you’re uplifting what is – a guy who has really fallen off the radar, you know?
He – he used to send his followers to my events and try to ask me a bunch of questions about the Jews and Israel support and all that and try to disrupt events and they would try to infiltrate the MAGA movement. You know, they were really on a – on a downhill slide. And for Tucker to have him on, you know, Senator Cruz is exactly right. And this idea that we have to, you know, that it’s cancel culture if we – if we – if we – if we keep Tucker out of our circles from now on is just nonsense. It’s a – I literally wrote a book on cancel culture. So, you know, I’ve thought deeply about this.
Cancel culture means you’re – you’re canceling someone for what is basically a mainstream belief, or maybe a – maybe small – like honest mistake they made. That would be maybe considered cancel culture. It’s not cancel culture when you say, look, I want to disassociate myself from you because your believes are crazy and you’re psychopathic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: And you’re – and you are falling apart in front of everyone.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DAN CRENSHAW: You know, disassociation is not canceling anyone. And I know some have suggested it is. So, and I think – I – moral clarity is a lot more important in in case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Congressman Crenshaw, we have to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Massachusetts Democratic Governor Maura Healey, who joins us this morning from Boston.
Governor, welcome to “FACE THE NATION.”
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY (D-MA): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A family of four receiving food stamps makes $31,000 or less per year. That program gives less than $200 a month to one in eight Americans. That’s 42 million people. I know you joined this lawsuit to try to sue the administration to get them to use emergency funding to pay for food stamps during the government shutdown. Given what happened with the courts Friday, will food stamp payments be going out this week? It’s your state that has to administer the program, right?
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: Yes. I don’t know, Margaret, because the president hasn’t said whether he’s going to approve the release of those contingency funds. I mean, the impact of this is just devastating. One in eight Americans, you say. I have about one in seven Massachusetts residents who are on SNAP. I was at food pantries yesterday. I mean people across our state do not want to see people go hungry. But people woke up on Saturday morning not having access to their benefits.
The reason we sued, Margaret, 28 states, and I’m glad and grateful to the A.G.s for getting the favorable ruling. It basically tells the president, do what you’re supposed to do, which is, use the contingency funds that have been set aside for exactly this purpose. When there is a shutdown, among other things, release those funds, continue the SNAP payments to our states.
I strongly urge that. I hope it happens immediately on Monday. People in this country should not go hungry. And I think Americans don’t want to see their brothers and sisters go hungry.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that federal judge in Rhode Island ordered full payments by Monday or partial SNAP payments by Wednesday. On another network the Treasury secretary was asked if – if the administration would do just that, and he said, “could be.”
Practically speaking, how do you – how quickly can you turn it on? I mean if that comes through Wednesday, do people in Massachusetts get to eat on Thursday?
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: No. I mean the problem, Margaret, with what the president has done is that he cut this off. And it takes a few days to load up those cards. I mean anywhere between two and five days.
I will tell you what I am doing as governor, because I’ve got to protect my residents. I’ve got to work with others to make sure that they are fed. We’ve advanced funding to our food pantries. We stood up a United Way fund and already, you know, 3 million, I think, in contributions have come through this week. We have seen an incredible outpouring of volunteers. I was at food pantries yesterday and the turnout is something.
And, you know, but – but this is not sustainable, right? I mean we cannot continue along this path, which is why he needs to release those funds as at least one court told him to do right now, as soon as possible, because it takes us time to load up those cards.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, here’s how President Trump described the shutdown impact Friday. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VC)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: All they have to do is say, the government is open, and that’s the end of it. And, you know, largely, when you talk about SNAP, you’re talking about largely Democrats. But I’m president. I want to help everybody. I want to help Democrats and Republicans. But when you’re talking about SNAP, if you look, it’s largely Democrats. They’re hurting their own people.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Doesn’t he have a point that your party is responsible for some of this pain?
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: Yes, absolutely not. And, frankly, that’s a really insulting comment.
You know, Margaret, I’ve got 21,000 veterans, men and women who have served our country, who are SNAP beneficiaries in Massachusetts, who had their benefits turned off, who face hunger right now. To be clear, you want to know who SNAP beneficiaries are in the country? They’re our seniors, they’re kids, and they’re people with disabilities. They live in every state, and every city and town around the country. And for the president to even suggest something like that or say something like that is insulting.
And this is the part – this is the problem with D.C. You showed the poll, right? I mean, at the end of the day, the president and Republicans control the House, the Senate and the White House. And, you know, Mike Johnson hasn’t had these guys back in session I think but for 12 out of 100 of the last days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: So, get back to Washington. Get back to the table. Sort this out. Americans want to see that people are fed. They want to make sure that they have access to childcare, because health – Headstart’s getting turned off, too. And they don’t want to see their health premiums go up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: I mean that’s what’s happening right now. And the impact is being felt everywhere.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We checked and the top five states are districts with the highest percentage of residents who use food stamps are in New Mexico, D.C., Louisiana, Oregon, and Oklahoma. Two of those states are ruby red and voted for President Trump in last election. I think that’s what you’re pointing to in terms of insult.
But on the substance of why we are in this shutdown, Democrats have refused to sign on to a clean government funding bill. On that point, don’t Democrats bear some responsibilities?
GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY: What Democrats in Congress did is stand with hundreds of thousands, millions of Americans right now who are seeing their premiums go up. I’ve got people in Massachusetts who just got notices because of the expiration of these subsidies. They’re going to see their premiums rise as much as $20,000. American families can’t afford that, you know?
And I’m focused on economic hardship and what I can do to protect my people. And I think most of us are in our states as governors. Which is why the folks in D.C. need to get back to work. Mike Johnson needs to call his members back because, how are you going to get a negotiation if you’re not even in D.C., right? You got to get back to D.C. The president has got to give a clear directive to Republicans that they need to reopen government because Americans are suffering and continue to suffer every single day.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor Healey, thank you for your time this morning.
We’ll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by Juan Andrade, CEO of financial services company USAA. Many of its nearly 14 million customers are in the military or veterans. And he joins us from San Antonio.
Sir, Secretary Bessent said on this program just last Sunday that by November 15th the troops and service members aren’t going to be paid. What level of anxiety are you seeing among your customers?
JUAN ANDRADE (President and CEO, USAA): Margaret, thank you for having me on your show.
What we’re seeing today is uncertainty, anxiety, and, for some, real hardship. And that’s really within the – the active duty community. It’s also important to note that 30 percent of federal employees are also veterans or military spouses. So, this is more than an impact to a Household budget. This can really undermine morale and focus. And our goal is to provide stability for people who are living paycheck to paycheck and who are, frankly, losing ground.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I’ve seen that you’re offering interest free loans to customer. Is that everyone or just specifically active duty military? And if they can’t qualify for a loan, what do they do?
JUAN ANDRADE: So, we’re offering our government shutdown program to all eligible members of USAA. So, as you said, that’s currently about 14.5 million people. And at that point we’ve acted swiftly and decisively. In the first 48 hours of the shutdown, we funded $150 million in zero interest loans. We are now up to $400 million to date. But that’s also in addition to payment extensions that we’ve done on credit cards, auto loans, mortgages. We’ve also waived fees for overdraft. And we’ve also had flexible insurance arrangements across our property casualty, life, and health insurance businesses.
MARGARET BRENNAN: $400 million in zero interest loans. So, people are already looking to try to figure out how to make ends meet.
We looked, and a quarter of all active-duty military members are food insecure according to the Department of Agriculture. That was well before this shutdown. That means they don’t have a good diet or they’re not able to afford food.
We already saw strain on a lot of that active-duty military. Can you give us a sense of what this means for someone now to look at the calendar and know November 15th there’s no pay coming?
JUAN ANDRADE: Yes. And I agree. This is one of the reasons why we’ve already funded 400 million in loans at this point in time. People are preparing for an uncertain period of time. And this is very important to them, particularly if we think about our younger enlisted, and particularly those with families.
Dual incomes in military families is not a luxury, it’s a necessity. So, these are people that we’re very worried about. And we want to make sure that they’re stable through this period of time.
The other part of this, and, frankly, the reason for doing these zero interest loans, is we want to make sure that they don’t turn to high interest rate payday loans or high interest rate credit cards at the same time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the unemployment rate among civilian military spouses is almost five times the national average, to your point, they need dual income. Many can’t do that.
But the Congressional Budget Office projection is that there will be an economic cost. That the shutdown itself could lead to $7 billion to $14 billion in lost growth. What’s the impact on the communities like yours where you are living down in Texas, you know, in areas where there are bases around this country?
JUAN ANDRADE: Sure. I think you see it in a few ways. I think one is definitely on consumer spending. Right now people are prioritizing basic needs, whether it’s health or food at this point in time. So, they’re definitely cutting back on – on discretionary spending. I think that’s part of that.
The other aspect of it is, you’re going to see more people who are food insecure. And this is one of the reasons why we have also been supporting our local communities. Our offices are all located near major military installations. And we have donated millions to military aid societies who are best positioned to provide food and over services in installations. And we’ve also been donating to local food banks in our communities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, how does this compare to the last extended shutdown that we had during the first Trump administration?
JUAN ANDRADE: The last shutdown basically has not – did not last as long. I think that was a big part of that. And we also had the certainty that the military would be getting paid. Now, clearly, up until now, they have been getting paid. The question of the uncertainty that we’re seeing from our members is, what happens over the next couple of weeks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because you were already planning for that November 15 – when you say the shutdown wasn’t this long, you were assuming the government does not get funded for how long?
JUAN ANDRADE: We’re already –
MARGARET BRENNAN: How long can you keep doing this?
JUAN ANDRADE: We’re already planning for a second loan to members. So, we’ve had a number take us up certainly on the first offer of loan. Now they’re taking us up on the second offer of loan. And we’re prepared to assist. That’s our job. And to take our members in the military community. So, we will keep up with this. And if we have to do more, we will do more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Well, we – we are thinking of your customers at this time. We’ll continue to track what happens with that real-world impact.
Thank you, Mr. Andrade.
JUAN ANDRADE: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week. For “FACE THE NATION,” I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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