The feud between former Mayor Bill de Blasio and former Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is one of the most bitter in New York City history.
Mr. Cuomo’s run for mayor this year has reopened some of Mr. de Blasio’s wounds. In a blistering 30-minute interview, Mr. de Blasio revisited his disastrous relationship with Mr. Cuomo, accusing him of undermining the city and saying he was unworthy of being mayor.
Rich Azzopardi, a spokesman for Mr. Cuomo, said Mr. de Blasio’s comments were in bad faith and accused him of allowing the city to fall into decline and embarrassing himself by trying to run for president.
Here are excerpts from the interview. It was edited for length and clarity.
1. Do you think Cuomo would be a good mayor?
No.
Why?
I think Andrew Cuomo would simply deepen the troubled status quo in the city. The city has become profoundly unaffordable. A lot of that is because of policies he put in place at the state level. And it’s quite clear his interests align with the wealthy and the powerful and the real estate community. So he is not someone I would depend on to address the affordability issue.
2. How did he hurt the city in terms of affordability?
When he was governor, the state never created a meaningful affordable housing program that really reached deep into New York City.
My administration created an initiative to house 300,000 families. We never got meaningful support from the state. We didn’t get support in terms of dealing with homelessness. We didn’t get support in terms of dealing with public housing.
Whenever I went to Albany seeking help, I got a blind eye from the governor. We needed the state to prioritize affordable housing in a way that would really make an impact and was as bold as what we were doing in the city, and they never did.
3. What about the idea that he hasn’t lived here in 30 years? Do you think he understands the city?
No. I mean, I had endless conversations with him about what was going on in New York City. I often felt like he was talking about a place he didn’t know. I think his understanding of New York City is a bit stuck in the 1980s and ’90s. I don’t think he feels the affordability crisis.
4. He released his final television advertisement of the campaign, and it’s focused on President Trump. His closing argument is that he’ll stand up to Trump.
First of all, he’s too much like Trump to depend on him to fight Trump. He and Trump have a long relationship. They are very similar people. Their default position is only to blame others for their problems and to bully and to put their political needs ahead of the people they serve. I would worry immediately that they come to an accommodation.
Just on the fundamental question of honesty, you’ve got a number of candidates that no one is accusing of scandal or dishonesty or corruption: Adrienne Adams, Brad Lander, Zohran Mamdani, Zellnor Myrie.
Cuomo has a long history of just not telling the truth, including most painfully about the nursing homes and the seniors who were lost. That’s another Trumpian characteristic. If you want to fight Trump, do you choose someone who’s got lots of baggage and has a propensity to lie and is a lot like Trump and has a close relationship with him? I don’t think so.
I think people who are motivated by values are much more likely to stand up to Trump consistently, and I would say that about most of the other candidates.
5. On the coronavirus pandemic, there were a lot of difficult decisions. You were particularly frustrated that Cuomo delayed the “shelter in place” that you called for in March 2020?
When I called for “shelter in place” it was because the situation got dire and we needed to take aggressive action, and we saw it already starting to work in San Francisco.
I thought Cuomo’s response was political and small and nasty. He had a chance to say, “This is something that we need to immediately act on.” Instead, he kind of mocked the idea. That was irresponsible. You can look at different studies, but I don’t have a question that there were very dire consequences to that delay.
6. What would you say to Cuomo’s supporters who point to the things he did for the city in terms of rebuilding LaGuardia Airport, the Second Avenue subway, Moynihan Train Hall?
This election is not about infrastructure. This election is about affordability. People are hurting. Real New Yorkers who have been here for decades are struggling to stay in their own city, and he is part of the problem. He had ample opportunity to address it when he had all the power in the world as governor. He didn’t do it.
He is way too close to the rich and the powerful in this town who want to leave things the way they are. I’ll grant him respect for being good at getting some infrastructure projects done. But as nice as it is to have an improved LaGuardia Airport, that doesn’t help the average working New Yorker. LaGuardia is great for business travelers and tourists, but it’s not a way to actually alleviate the challenges of everyday New Yorkers.
7. I was looking back at the 2015 interview you did with The New York Times when you accused Cuomo publicly of seeking revenge. How do you view that interview now?
He is a vindictive person. He’s a bully. He’s obsessed with revenge. And what I said a decade ago is still true.
I tried accommodation. I tried respect. I tried compromise. And what I found was he didn’t keep his word, he didn’t tell the truth and he put his political interests ahead of New York City’s needs. And at a certain point you’re like, “Well, this is getting us nowhere.”
I wish it had never come to that — I honestly do. It was not a fun process. It would have been a joy to work with normal governors who wanted to work together and cooperate. Even the brief time I worked with Gov. Kathy Hochul, that was the case. There were no games. If we came to an agreement, it stood for something. It wasn’t an effort to undermine or score political points or assign blame. It was actual, serious, mature government.
8. Do you think Cuomo still wants to be president?
Absolutely. This is just a steppingstone, and it should never be a steppingstone. It’s too important. [Mr. de Blasio made an ill-fated run for president in 2019.]
9. One concern I’ve heard from voters is how Cuomo treated Andy Byford, the subway leader.
It reminds me of Rudy Giuliani getting rid of Bill Bratton because Bratton did so much to make the city safe and got national acclaim for it and that was too much for Giuliani’s ego. So he fired the greatest police leader we ever had.
Equally, Andy Byford was doing extraordinary work, and Cuomo was trying to undermine him at every turn. Because Byford was popular and respected and showing independence in terms of trying to help everyday straphangers and that was unacceptable.
It’s sad to me because Cuomo has got plenty of talent. I’m never going to argue against that. But if it was about taking care of everyday people’s needs, that would be great. It just isn’t. It’s about political ambition and ego.
10. I talked to a voter the other day who said maybe Cuomo had learned from his resignation and has had a change of heart.
I see no evidence of a change of heart. I think this is an old dog who doesn’t learn new tricks. He is set in his ways. It’s all about him.
Nothing has changed. He hasn’t apologized to the families who lost their seniors in nursing homes. He hasn’t apologized meaningfully to the women he harassed. He continues to fight them in court.
I think Adrienne Adams, in the first debate when she really pushed the no regrets point, was in a powerful place. He hasn’t expressed real regret for anything, and he’s not going to, just like Trump.
Emma G. Fitzsimmons is the City Hall bureau chief for The Times, covering Mayor Eric Adams and his administration.
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