Senator Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California, is better known among Republicans as “pencil neck,” “shifty Schiff” and just plain old “scum.”
Ever since his role as the lead manager of President Trump’s first impeachment in 2019, Mr. Schiff has held a special place in the hierarchy of Mr. Trump’s political enemies: right on top. Last year, Mr. Trump was still railing against him at almost every campaign rally, and House Republicans aligned with Mr. Trump censured Mr. Schiff over his role in that investigation.
It made for a fund-raising boon: One email Mr. Schiff sent this week crowed that “Trump called me ‘scum’ — from the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.” And being public enemy No. 1 of die-hard Trump supporters helped elevate him to the Senate seat he now occupies.
But Mr. Schiff has risen at a complicated time. Large areas in his state have been destroyed by fires and California will need federal disaster aid to rebuild. Mr. Trump is the president again, and he has already threatened to withhold that money unless Democrats furnish votes for his policy priorities. Procuring the funds for California will mean working with the administration, not just being a figure associated with any kind of resistance.
Mr. Schiff on Thursday turned down an invitation to accompany the president on a tour of the devastation in Los Angeles County, citing scheduled votes in the Senate on Friday. Mr. Trump, in turn, told reporters on Friday that he had never invited Mr. Schiff.
In an interview in his office on Thursday afternoon, Mr. Schiff discussed the tricky spot he was in, why he wished former President Joseph R. Biden Jr. had not pardoned him and how he planned to do his new job given his bad blood with the president.
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
Will the fact that Mr. Trump particularly despises you hurt California?
The challenge for California is the same challenge we had in his first term. States that aren’t with him, he gives second-class citizenship to. We saw this in the last Trump tax cuts, the way he treated state and local tax deductions knowing it would penalize blue coastal states.
That’s kind of built in.
But this is now bigger than Trump. He’s infected much of the Republican Party in Washington to view us not as the United States of America but as red states and blue states. We’re going to have to deal with that.
He called you “scum” on his first day back in the Oval Office. And then he called you “crooked” in his first interview, with Fox News host Sean Hannity.
That may have answered a question I had.
I have thought, “Either I’m living rent free in the guy’s head, or I’m a useful foil for him at rallies, or both.” I couldn’t say which was the dominant impulse. The sheer randomness of bringing me up on his Inauguration Day told me this was more than usefulness as a foil.
It gets back to something Jared Kushner once told me during the depositions on the Russia investigation.
He said to me, like a sidebar: “You know, you do a really good job on TV.” I said jokingly, “Your father-in-law doesn’t think so.” His answer was, “Yes, he does.”
He notices who is effective against him on TV. I think the arguments I’ve made against him during the impeachment hit pretty close to home. I think that’s probably why.
So can you actually work together, as you will now need to do?
I have had two meetings with him, one in the Oval, one in the Cabinet Room. It was very cordial both times. At the cabinet meeting, when the Iranians downed one of our drones, I was seated on one side of the table and we were waiting for Speaker Pelosi, the president came in and sat down. He physically blanched when he saw me.
Then he said, “I’m glad you’re here.”
I said, “I’m glad I’m here.”
It was very civil. I do remember that the former secretary of defense, Mark Esper, who had not yet been confirmed, was there. While we were making small talk, I said to the president, “I think you made a really good choice with Esper; I’ve known him for a long time.”
He didn’t respond to that. Later in the meeting, he said, “Just how long have you known Esper?” I thought, “Oh shit — I just killed his confirmation.”
What’s your view of Mr. Trump and other Republicans pushing the idea of conditioning disaster aid to California?
I would just say to my colleagues, you don’t want to go down that road. We give a lot more than we receive. We have contributed more to the recovery of other states than many states combined; we’ve never tried to condition it.
What do you expect to come of Mr. Trump’s visit to Los Angeles?
I don’t know anything about it, the governor doesn’t know anything about it. I just hope he comes; I think if he sees the devastation and talks to people, that I would hope he can’t help but be moved.
He really shouldn’t look at the state as some political foil. Millions of people in California voted for him. Some of them just had their houses burn down.
You voted for Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s confirmation. Will you vote for Representative Elise Stefanik’s confirmation to serve as ambassador to the United Nations?
No. She came to Congress as a supposed moderate. She’s decided the power and the glory is in the MAGA wing of the party. When MAGA is a thing of the past, she will transform into something else.
Unlike former Representative Liz Cheney, you did not thank former President Joseph R. Biden Jr. for your pre-emptive pardon. Why not?
I was surprised. No one gave me a heads-up. I was publicly and privately communicating, you should not give these pardons.
I didn’t like the precedent it set, I didn’t think they were necessary. They are, of course, being used to justify the completely unjustifiable.
I said, “Don’t do any of these.” It was quite a surprise.
Can you say, “Thanks but no thanks?”
Legally it’s unclear. Some courts have interpreted it as having the effect of law; others have found differently. We have tried as a committee [the House Select Committee on the Jan. 6 Attack] to stick together. I’m conferring with my colleagues on the committee. I don’t think there’s anything to be done.
So, to circle back, you really don’t think Mr. Trump will be less likely to help California because of you?
I have no idea. At the end of the day, there’s only one certainty about Donald Trump: He’s for Donald Trump. He will change his view five times come Tuesday. The only consistency you’ll find is self-interest. It really depends on where he views his self-interest.
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