It’s not every day that I start an interview by asking, “Who the fuck are you?” But when Jamie Lee Curtis and Margo Martindale are your interview subjects, it’s more than appropriate.
“Margo, it’s your line from the episode,” Curtis says enthusiastically, referring to a scene with her co-star in the new Prime Video series, The Sticky. “Who the fuck are you?”
“Who the fuck are you?” Martindale responds.
“No, who the fuck are you?” counters Curtis.
And so begins a back-and-forth with the two icons that continues for several minutes, with Curtis eventually throwing herself onto Martindale in a bear hug with a big kiss.
While I won’t spoil “who the fuck” Curtis is when she eventually appears in the series’ fifth episode, their banter and chemistry is enough to make you wonder why the award-winning actors have never teamed up before, let alone even met. It wasn’t until Curtis—an executive producer on The Sticky—recruited Martindale for the lead role that the two finally came face-to-face.
The result is a slick, six-episode zany drama series inspired by a real-life heist that saw more than $18 million worth of maple syrup stolen from Quebec’s national reserves. Martindale, best known for her supporting roles in Justified, The Americans, The Good Wife, and many more, plays Ruth Landry, a tough-as-nails maple syrup farmer. It’s the first time in her decades-long career that, at 73, she’s number one on the call sheet.
Never mind that it was freezing cold during most of filming in Canada. As Martindale tells Glamour, “It was the most different from other scripts I was reading at the time—and the most fun.”
It almost didn’t happen. A skeptical Martindale was unsure of whether she was right for the role when Curtis cold-called her. What transpired next is a case study in the rollercoaster that is Hollywood, and why betting against Jamie Lee Curtis is never a good idea.
I sat down with the two powerhouses in Los Angeles to discuss how they’ve navigated the lowest of career lows, their strongly-held views on aging, and why it pays to be ballsy in love.
Glamour: Jamie, tell us how you recruited Margo for The Sticky.
Jamie Lee Curtis: I had to get her number. Originally I was going to be in The Sticky, playing Ruth. That was the goal. That was my plan. I loved the show. I thought it was funny. We sold it, and then we didn’t sell it, and then we sold it, then we didn’t. You know, it’s show business. It went away for a long period of time. We thought it was over, and then all of a sudden we got a call that Amazon wanted it. At that point, I had already committed to other work because this was now a year and a half later. I still wanted to be involved as a producer, but I could’t do the show. So the obvious question was, “Well, who’s going to play Ruth?” That’s where the immediate understanding that it needed to be Margo was. I have lovely agents, and I’m sure she has lovely agents, but my experience is to go straight to the source. So I said, “Get me her number.”
Good for you.
JLC: So, I just called Margo up one day. Okay, now Margo, you tell the rest.
Margo Martindale: I answer the phone. She says [in a deep voice], “Hi, this is Jamie Lee Curtis.”
JLC: Wow. I didn’t say it that aggressively.
MM: Well, no. [In a regular voice] “Hi, this is Jamie Lee Curtis.”
JLC: There, you go. Better.
MM: It was friendly. She wasn’t being…
JLC: …a longshoreman.
MM: No, you weren’t, but I was. And her being her, she said, “I thought, who is like me that could do this role?” And she said, “Margo Martindale.” I said, in my head, “In what world am I like Jamie Lee Curtis?”
JLC: In this world, right here.
MM: And she said, “So you’re going to do it.” I said, “Well, I’m going to have to read it.” And she said, “No, you’re going to do it.”
Did she really? Like that?
MM: Uh-huh.
JLC: I might have.
MM: I said, “Well, we need to work out all the things that get worked out [in negotiations], but…” And then I said, “I’m probably going to do it, but I’ve got to read it first.”
Jamie, you’re clearly not taking no for an answer, correct?
JLC: Well, there was no “no” for an answer. Meaning, obviously if she said, “I can’t because I’m doing another TV series,” you go, “Oh, bummer.” But we had already done the due diligence to understand she was not committed to another TV series which would have put her out of the running.
MM: Once I did it read it, it was the most different from other scripts I was reading at the time—and the most fun.
So when did you finally meet in person?
JLC: In Montreal, when I showed up.
That is wild to me, because I feel like you would have met at some award show over the last 10 years.
JLC: We’d never. We haven’t even done that celebrity salute to each other where you don’t know each other, or you don’t meet, but you walk by and tip your head back a little bit, which is, “I acknowledge that we’re both famous and that we’re at an award show, but we don’t know each other, but I like your work.” Like that. Literally, I’ve done that with many people, but I’ve never done that with her.
MM: So she walked into my apartment in Montreal…
JLC: Yes, I did.
MM: She’s so straightforward and has such strength. She’s a real smart, clear thinker, and she’s extremely, extremely supportive. And when she came, she came to play.
Oh, I’ve seen episode five. She sure did.
JLC: Yes, I did. Mommy did not travel all the way to Montreal in the frigid tundra to be passive and uninteresting. I was going to show up with some spirit.
MM: Yes she did.
JLC: And what Margo just said about me, the same applies to her. She’s passionate, clear, kind, has good leadership. It’s why I think we’re drawn to each other. There’s a truth-telling in the work with Margo.
What was it like when you two shared the screen for the first time?
JLC: I said, “Who the fuck are you?”
MM: It’s a drama, but the drama makes for hilarity a lot of times because the stakes are so high that it makes me laugh.
Jamie, you mentioned you didn’t think this project was going to happen after it fell apart originally. How did you deal with that roller coaster of emotions?
JLC: Well, all I had committed to was Ruth. The show didn’t exist. The loss was the chance to play Ruth, but it never materialized. We went out to market with the show, and [the studio] bought it, and then they didn’t buy it. And so, as soon as that happened…honestly, I was off to another job very quickly.
So the trick to getting over something disappointing is to obviously have something else in the wings. [Laughs]
JLC: Well, there a lot of things that I have championed but have fallen apart.
MM: It happens all the time in this business.
JLC: I’ve just gotten used to it, but I’ve also been really lucky.
Margo, what have you learned from Jamie? And what makes you say yes to a project?
MM: To listen to her daily lectures. [Laughs] But, I really am good at picking stuff out, and I know what material I’m not interested in. And if that wouldn’t happen, something else would. You have to think that way. Always. I thought that way even when I wasn’t working. Like if I didn’t get a job, it was because they were stupid. I thought like that.
JLC: Just today, somebody asked me about Pamela Anderson, who I’m in The Last Showgirl with right now. I said yes to the movie before I read it, because I knew Pamela was going to play the part.
I’m 66, and I’ve been waiting my whole life for Donna Berzatto (Jamie’s Emmy-winning role on The Bear) to show up in my life. My entire life. I’ve done work that I’m happy with and thrilled with. I love my job, but I’ve been awaiting very patiently for that opportunity. There are people who work all the time, and they don’t get these opportunities. That changes you. So, for me, watching Margo get to do a part that you didn’t get to do prior to that, that is exciting to me and the whole reason to do this—to be able to watch this one work.
MM: Good Lord.
JLC: I’m telling you, and you’ve enjoyed it. It’s fucking fun to watch people fly.
MM: It is. It’s fun to fly.
What lessons are you unlearning at this point in your life?
MM: To let the little things go. I try not to worry as much as I used to, but I’m a terrible worrier.
So can you let the little things go?
MM: Not really. [Laughs]
I appreciate the honesty, at least. It’s like when people say to me, “You can’t take it personally.” I’m like, “But I do take it personally because I put so much into it.”
MM: Right. To be honest, I don’t have an answer for that. But I’m sure Jamie does.
JLC: That’s a hard question, actually. Jessica, what have you had to unlearn?
Things like people-pleasing or thinking I have to look a certain way or fit into a certain mold, especially in this business.
MM: At 73, I don’t have to look any way except for how I look.
JLC: And Margo, you look beautiful. I always [tell people], “Don’t fuck with your face.” Just don’t do it. I think that there is a conspiracy of the cosmeceutical industrial complex [that has greatly impacted] a generation. At least one generation, if not two, of women who believe that you have to fuck with your face in order to be loved, and that is not true.
MM: So not true.
JLC: And unfortunately, we’re being fed every day that it is true. Also, you’re right about the people-pleasing, because people-pleasing is the job of an actor in many ways. Pleasing is a life-long unlearning, I’m realizing. Margo might laugh at this, but I’m really quite isolating, the older I get.
How so?
JLC: I don’t have much bandwidth for people’s noise anymore, and it’s not that I’m snarky. Honestly, I just don’t have the patience for it. I don’t go out at night. The lights are out at like 5:30. Guess what? I’m in my jammies. I’m asleep by 6:30, 7 p.m. I’m up at 3:30 or 4 a.m. That’s my time, and I love it. But I need to recharge the battery, so by this point in the day, I’m ready for bed.
Good for you. On a different note, is there a role that you wanted really badly over the years and you didn’t get it?
JLC: Yes, but I’m never going to tell you.
Why not?
JLC: Because then it sort of somehow diminishes the person who did it. I’ll tell you this: Every single job I went up for for about four years went to Debra Winger. Every single one of them went to Debra Winger. And I just find that it’s like, “Okay, fine. She’s so great,” and that’s fine. Literally, every job she did for about four years? I also went up for.
MM: I really wanted to play Winnifred in Once Upon a Mattress at the University of Michigan, but I didn’t get it. But the person who did could really sing.
On a completely different note, we need to talk about how you met your spouses. Jamie, the story goes that you saw a picture of Christopher Guest in a magazine and said, “I’m going to marry that man.” How’d you make it happen?
JLC: Yes, yes.
MM: I have a same sort of story.
This I need to hear.
JLC: I saw his picture in the magazine and said I was going to marry him to my friend who sitting on the couch next to me. She said, “Who?” I said, “That one, right there.” It was a picture of three guys with their arms around each other, and I went, “That one.” And she said, “Oh, yeah. His name is Chris Guest. I tried to put him in a movie once. He’s with your agents.” I said, “Oh? I’m going to marry him.” So, I called his agent the next day. His agent said, “Hi, Jamie. I know all about it. Chris Guest.” I said, “What are you fucking talking about?” He said, “Your friend called me.” I said, “Look, the guy’s cute. I’m not a stalker. I’m single. Here’s my number.” He didn’t call me, and then I dated somebody else for about a month. I took him to the airport and kind of broke up with him when I was dropping him off. Then I went and picked up Melanie Griffith and her then-husband, Steve Bauer, who lived two blocks from me in West Hollywood. We went to Hugo’s Restaurant, I sat down, and Chris was sitting about 15 feet away.
I was facing him, and he looked at me. I was so mortified. And then he got up to leave like a minute later when he finished his meal. He stood next to his chair and just kind of shrugged his shoulders and waved. And then he left. But he called me the next day. That was June 28, 1984. We went out July 2, 1984. He was doing a year of Saturday Night Live. He was leaving August 8, for a year, to go to New York City. I was starting the movie Perfect in August of 1984 in Los Angeles. We got engaged September 28. We got married December 18 and will be celebrating 40 years of marriage this year.
Wow. Congratulations. But also, did he say why he didn’t originally call you?
JLC: Because he’s shy. Anyway, that’s how I met my husband.
Okay, Margo, your turn.
MM: I went to a restaurant in New York City that I used to work at to see my old boyfriend from college, who was a waiter there. There was a new guy there who was the busboy. And I said, “What’s your name?” He said, “Bill.” And I said, “Where are you from, Bill?” He said, “Texas.” I said, “I’m from Texas too. Where in Texas?” He said, “Frisco, Texas.” I said, “Huh. I’m going to marry you.” And he walked away and was scared to death of me every time I would come in. But then things worked out, and I’ve been married for almost 39 years.
So that’s what I need to do. I need to tell the next guy that I like, “I’m going to marry you.”
JLC: Well, “Who the fuck are you?” is sort of how this interview began and “I’m going to marry you” is how it ends.
And “don’t fuck with your face.”
JLC: And “don’t fuck with your face.”
Jessica Radloff is the Glamour senior West Coast editor and author of the NYT bestseller, The Big Bang Theory: The Definitive, Inside Story of the Epic Hit Series.
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