Set in Vatican City, Edward Berger’s new movie, “Conclave,” is ostensibly about a clique of catty cardinals jockeying to become the next pope.
Centered around a tortured Cardinal Lawrence, played by Ralph Fiennes, and also starring Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow and Isabella Rossellini, “Conclave” is rife with scenes of cigarette-smoking clergymen meeting in shadow-filled stairwells, gasp-inducing vote counts and midnight break-ins. The movie (based on a 2016 novel by Robert Harris) falls somewhere between a John le Carré novel and an episode of “Survivor.”
But “Conclave,” in many ways, is also about clothes. Mr. Berger’s camera lingers on close-ups of the cardinal’s gargantuan gold crucifixes, his ruby-red robes and his art-teacherlike glasses. In one sequence, two holy men poke fun at the supersized scale of a former pope’s vestments (again, these are some catty clerics). Later, a crucial confrontation takes place in a cloakroom.
It’s of little surprise that a film set in the Vatican would be so preoccupied with style. From their ritualistic robes to their footwear and statement socks, religious figures like priests, cardinals and popes have always had a striking, idiosyncratic fashion sense.
Row after row of cardinals in identical crimson robes makes for a visually stunning film, but one that, as the “Conclave” costume designer Lisy Christl explained, was a challenge to design for.
“The fabric is horrible,” on the genuine cassocks, Ms. Christl said. “I don’t want to be disrespectful,” she added, but to her eyes, the drape of the genuine papal garb “looks like a curtain.”
In rethinking the vestments for “Conclave” she took some liberties. Reds are richer, accessories zestier, and cassocks have a couture shapeliness to them. The clothes in “Conclave,” are gorgeous to behold but perhaps wouldn’t entirely fool the Pontifical Swiss Guard.
In a recent interview, Ms. Christl elaborated on how she updated these ritualistic garments, the hidden significance of each cardinal’s hulking crucifix and how she plucked inspiration from Balenciaga. This conversation has been edited and condensed.
This film was quite a departure from movies you’ve worked on in the past, so how did you go about learning the ins and outs of liturgical fashion?
We had a clerical adviser, the wonderful Francesco Bonomo, and I asked him, “Is there a book for beginners, the ABC’s of how to understand the clergy’s clothes?” And he said “No. No.” So, I read a lot. I have a lot of books about this subject [She pointed to a full bookshelf.]
How much did all of that reading end up factoring into the film?
I did this extensive research and I put it into a book, and I sent it to Edward [Berger] and he said: “Great, thank you, so it’s good homework. Is it creative? No.”
And then I saw this couture show from Balenciaga, it was spring 2020. (A show featuring goth ball gowns with ginormous belled skirts.) I thought: Look at this, this is interesting. I love minimalism and at the same time a modern forward-facing silhouette or exaggeration. One week later, Edward sends me the same clip and he said, “Isn’t this inspiring?” And this was a kind of permission: You can bring in your taste. It’s allowed.
So how did you start to put your stamp on things?
We went to Rome and we saw the actual cassocks and how their red color burns in your eye. It’s quite orangy, the actual color. I worked with a friend of mine, Marie Heitzinger; she’s a textile artist. I showed her Renaissance paintings, the reds — you can feel a color if you like it or not — and then she started to dye around these paintings like Velasquez or Francis Bacon. I would say our red is bluer and warmer.
Because all the cardinals wear the same thing, in the movie, accessories, glasses in particular, are really important to giving each character their own flair, so to speak. Where did that idea come from?
When you see the real cardinals, they only wear glasses that look like they cost $2.50 and are from 1985. It’s just not elegant at all. I thought, why not just give it a little bit of something extra, not too obviously. We worked with an Italian brand, Bobsdrunk, and I went with the face, what fits Stanley Tucci, what fits John Lithgow.
I’m curious about the crucifixes too. They really range from cardinal to cardinal. What was the meaning behind those?
With the crosses, cardinals show: are you liberal, are you conservative. It’s like with the presidential ties in the states. The golden ones are the conservatives and the silver ones are the liberals. There are also wooden ones but on camera they looked a bit like a toy.
My Italian supervisor introduced me to a goldsmith in Florence, Riccardo Penko. It was not cheap, but he made everything. He made all the crosses, he made the jewelry. He’s 25 and his family works for the archdiocese in Florence and all this belongs to the making of this movie. You cannot do a movie like this in Albuquerque, N.M. You have to be there and then you understand the power of this crazy world.
It’s long been known that Gammarelli makes clothes for the real-world pope. Did you shop at that store for the film?
No, but I went there. This is part of my understanding of the whole business. I sourced fabric swatches there, I asked about the price for a choir dress from head to toe. They were very willing to make it. It’s not holy, it’s not secretive, it’s a lot about money making.
After working on the film, did you start to see more of a crossover between the high fashion world and these ritualistic papal clothes?
Before doing the research for “Conclave,” I looked at Balenciaga, Dolce & Gabbana, Jil Sander (designed by Luke and Lucie Meier), Prada and many others from a different perspective. Now I can see the inspiration from the Roman Catholic Church all over the place. I think it’s the clear structure. When you learn about all the orders and what they wear, it’s so elegant.
So has anyone from the Vatican reached out to you after seeing the film?
No, but I got an email from a Jesuit in Baltimore. He said how much he loves the costumes and he wished, like, the Curia would be dressed like this.
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