The Twist Ending of Conclave Wasn’t Meant to Shock You

Warning: major spoilers ahead for the ending of Conclave.

“If there was only certainty and no doubt, there would be no mystery and therefore no need for faith,” Ralph Fiennes’s Cardinal Lawrence says at the start of the titular conclave that will elect a new pope. “Let us pray that God grants us a pope who doubts.”

Cardinal Lawrence, who is experiencing his own crisis of faith, says he isn’t interested in the top job. Instead, he supports progressive American candidate Cardinal Bellini (Stanley Tucci), who’s up against foes like the conservative Italian contender Cardinal Tedesco (Sergio Castellitto), as well as more moderate prospects like Canadian Cardinal Tremblay (John Lithgow) and Nigerian Cardinal Adeyemi (Lucian Msamati). Elsewhere in the Vatican, Isabella Rossellini’s Sister Agnes keeps a watchful eye on the proceedings, providing some valuable intel that eliminates a few prospects and brings into focus a dark horse candidate.

That would be young Cardinal Benitez (Carlos Diehz) of Kabul, who was secretly appointed to his position by the late pope shortly before his death. While the other contenders are busy politicking in hushed tones around the Vatican’s hallowed corridors, Benitez quietly gains support with each new round of voting. He earns the respect of his fellow cardinals—and eventually enough votes to become pope—while delivering a stirring speech about leading his ministry during wartime in Congo.

But before Benitez can ride his pope mobile into the sunset, Lawrence asks him why he made, then canceled, a medical appointment at a clinic in Switzerland years before the conclave. That is when Benitez reveals that he was born intersex. While having appendix-removal surgery decades earlier, doctors discovered that Benitez has both external male genitalia and internal female organs. He tells Lawrence that he declined to get a laparoscopic hysterectomy to remove his uterus and ovaries, thinking it a sin: “I am what God made me.”

When Benitez told the former pope his secret, the now deceased leader unexpectedly embraced his presence in the church. This support emboldened Benitez, making him believe that his difference could serve him as a religious leader. “I know what it is to exist between the world’s certainties,” he tells a stunned Lawrence, who similarly champions the new pope just before the credits roll.

Those who read the best-selling Robert Harris book on which Peter Straughan’s screenplay is based won’t be surprised by this ending. But some have already expressed doubt about how the film’s reveal happens. That’s just fine with director Edward Berger, whose last film, All Quiet on the Western Front, won four Oscars.

In fact, the German-born filmmaker insists that most people “don’t necessarily want to talk about the ending. They just generally want to talk about the film, about the feeling of the different political agendas, which seem to mirror the discourse of the day,” Berger tells Vanity Fair. “The movie could take place in Washington, DC, or within a company—Condé Nast,” he adds with a grin. “The CEO job is gone and suddenly everyone gets out their knives and tries to get that job. That’s what people understand and take away. And of course the ending changes or adds to that perspective, but it hasn’t been the main point of discussion. It’s one point of many.”

Vanity Fair: What was your first reaction upon learning the ending of Conclave?

Edward Berger: The script was the first thing I read, before the book. Tessa Ross, the producer, called me and said, “I think I have a script for you that you might like.” I said, “Who wrote it?” She said, “Peter Straughan.” And then I knew I was in for a treat. My reaction to the ending was pretty much like my reaction to all the twists and turns. I really liked that all the characters revealed something, a side of themselves that they didn’t expect, some deeper truth.

I didn’t expect it. It hit me profoundly, because I also thought suddenly the movie had something bigger to say. The movie takes place in the oldest patriarchy in the world, the Catholic Church, and Isabella Rossellini, even a person like that is relegated to being silent—just there to serve and observe. So suddenly, it left me with a feeling that maybe there’s a crack in the veneer of this seemingly perfect organization, and through that crack a future light can shine in.

Once you know the ending, it makes you want to go back and rewatch the rest of the film. Are there clues about Beneitez, or the fact that he will become pope hidden anywhere in the film?

There’s a small hint in the script, a scene where Cardinal Lawrence opens up his plastic bag of [shaving] razors and so forth. When he’s in Benitez’s room, he sees that his razor is still unused. It didn’t do anything for me and took away from the character, so I took it out. The only thing that we’re hinting at is that Benitez gathers traction throughout the film, mostly off-camera. More and more people align with him, that he’s actually the only person of purity in this. Everyone seems to have seven agendas, egotistical agendas, except him. He comes to it from a place of purity and clarity and faith and love, and all these wonderful elements that a lot of the others have lost—including Ralph’s character.

Through casting, we spent a long time finding Benitez because I didn’t want someone who you knew from any other movie. Because when he delivers that speech at the end, his reveal of his truth, there would be a sense in your mind: “I’ve seen him in this movie and in that movie.” So he needed to come from a sense of unknown. Carlos was really the only person in the world who we found where I looked into him and said, “Oh my God, I believe it.”

As cardinals begin lobbying to become the new pope, we begin to get a picture of what the old pope’s tenure looked like. He had secrets, but he was also supportive of Benitez.

We find him dead in his chambers and usually every pope moves into the papal palace, which is palatial and has all the luxuries in the world. This guy chose to stay in the Casa Santa Marta, which is basically a youth hostel. It’s cheap and modest. Just by that choice already you go, okay, this was probably a humble guy who said, “I just need a couple rooms where I can concentrate and study and that’s it.” By accepting who Benitez was, saying, “It doesn’t change how I view you, you should still be a cardinal. You’re a good person. We should have a person like you within the church,” we get a clear feeling of what his political agenda was.

It is difficult to read exactly what Ralph’s character is thinking when he hears about Benitez’s past. Were different versions of that scene filmed?

From Ralph’s character’s point of view, this comes as a shock. This revolutionizes his way of thinking. It wouldn’t come to me or you as a shock. It would be interesting. But for a Catholic person, it’s a big thing. Because even though he propagates in the beginning, I’d love a pope of uncertainty, when he is suddenly confronted with someone who says I’m in between the two worlds, suddenly he just needs a moment to work through that. We didn’t want to play it for shock value, by the way. We really wanted it to feel very natural and soft. This is Benitez. This is who he is; this is part of him. We wanted it to play as subtly and as sensitively as possible, and really not go for the big twist, sensational reveal.

Was that part of the reason that the film ends there? Was there ever a temptation to capture more of the fallout from this confession?

No, for me it really needs to end on Ralph thinking, this is kind of beautiful. Ralph in his room, all you hear is the hum of the fluorescent light, his breath, he’s sequestered, there’s no sunlight, no life coming in. It’s really oppressive, claustrophobic. Suddenly the shutters open. Light comes back in. Then he hears laughter. He realizes, oh, the right person has been selected to be pope. There’s a smile on his face: this is the right thing for the future of the church. His boss accepted it, so why question it? Everything that Carlos says makes complete rational sense. This is part of his physicality. We elected him. Why would that change anything?

I had seen an old black and white photograph of three nuns walking through Rome. And I thought that should be our last shot. We shot this in a studio, and I showed the photo to Ralph and said, “This is what you’re looking at, these three women laughing.” And he said, “Oh, that’s really helpful.” He’s really looking basically at the future of his own institution. That’s really what the end is. It’s not about Benitez. It’s more about letting in a breath of fresh air.

In the film it is said that “the church is not the past. It is what we do next.” Do you imagine what’s next for all of the characters?

We could do a sequel. [laughs] No, I think this is it. But obviously I think he would be a pope of great humility and understanding, furthering the cracks of the institution, bringing more light in.

Do you foresee people within the church finding out about Benitez’s intersex identity, or does that even matter?

It doesn’t matter. To me it really wouldn’t change anything. Still the same pope, and all that matters is how he represents his community and brings other people together. To be honest, probably a lot of the cardinals would be upset or say he cheated, but I don’t care. That’s their problem, not Benitez’s problem.

Do you have that same viewpoint with potentially religious people who may feel cheated by or be outraged about the ending? Are you bracing for backlash?

Not everyone needs to agree with the movie. I love when people disagree and we can have an argument about it, a real lively discussion. This is what Benitez is about—bringing people together, furthering discussion, and not squashing it. So if people disagree with it—which, to be honest, there will be people of course. But I’m not bracing myself, because I do feel that we try to deal with [the reveal] with diligence, sensitivity, and not using it as a plot device or anything. It’s also not a takedown of the church. It really looks at the people of that faith with honesty—trying to understand and serve everyone’s story.

Why does Benitez choose to be called Pope Innocent?

It’s a name of purity without any preconceptions. You see it in children—they have no bad experience, they’re theoretically only positive, only open towards others. They have no prejudices. They’re innocent. Then society conditions them to be a certain way, their parents, school, friends, and bad experiences leave trauma. So Benitez comes to us with absolute openness, and I think that’s what it means.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.