Ryan Murphy Thinks the Menendez Brothers Weren’t Incestuous, But Were Abused

Ryan Murphy is well aware of your opinions. The mega-producer has made headlines for the second season of his controversial and immensely popular Netflix anthology series, Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story, which takes an unflinching look at the Beverly Hills brothers who were found guilty of first-degree murder for the deaths of their parents, Jose and Mary Louise “Kitty” Menendez, in the ’90s. The brothers, currently serving life sentences without the possibility of parole, maintain that their parents, particularly their father, had emotionally, psychologically, and sexually abused them for years.

The thorny and complicated nature of the Menendez story is precisely what drew Murphy to it in the first place. “I only write things or work on things that I’m interested in doing. I guess, shockingly, 100% of those things tend to be provocative,” Murphy tells Vanity Fair. “So, you can call me a provocateur. I’ll take it.”

Murphy and Monsters have received some heat for their provocations, with the Menendez family calling the show “repulsive” and Erik Menendez releasing a statement disparaging the series, saying the Monsters is full of “blatant lies” about him and his brother. Some of the audience has also criticized the way in which the series probes all angles of the Menendez brothers story—from showcasing the grisly double murder to exploring more unsavory theories about what may have motivated the brothers, played by Nicholas Alexander Chavez and Cooper Koch, to kill their parents. One particularly salacious theory, allegedly posited by writer Dominick Dunne—who covered the trial for Vanity Fair—suggested that the two brothers may have engaged in an incestuous relationship. Monsters briefly gestures toward this theory as Dunne (played onscreen by Nathan Lane) presents the possibility to a table of guests around a dinner table. (Dunne never published that theory in his reporting for Vanity Fair).

“There’s a lot of controversy about the incest,” said Murphy, addressing the criticism head on. “I don’t think that the Menendez brothers had incest, personally, but there are people who say they did. And Dominick Dunne and other journalists and people…this was presented as evidence in court as a theory as to why these crimes might’ve happened.”

Murphy understands that people “might be a little confused about the kind of storytelling that we’re doing” in Monsters, which he describes as “a Rashomon approach” that explores the case from multiple perspectives. “What I was interested in doing was telling a really big, complicated American tapestry about this notorious case,” says Murphy. “And more than that, I was really, really interested in shining a spotlight on male sexual abuse in our culture, which is not often talked about a lot. It certainly wasn’t when I was a kid. It really wasn’t in the trial, which I find an outrage. I think it’s crazy that a lot of that evidence that the brothers claim to have now and then was not allowed in. And I think the world is a much different place now than it was then.”

Below, Murphy chats with Vanity Fair about finding the perfect Lyle and Erik, handling public criticism, and how he personally feels about the Menendez brothers’ case.

Vanity Fair: Nicholas and Cooper are such incredible finds, and they seemingly came out of nowhere. How did you cast them?

Ryan Murphy: [Monsters cocreator] Ian [Brennan] and I had a lot of opinions about different things, but the thing we really felt strongly was [that] we needed to find relatively unknown actors to play Erik and Lyle. We didn’t want anybody who brought baggage to it. We spent six months, and hundreds of people auditioned. As soon as I saw Cooper’s audition and Nicholas’ audition, I just was like, “Okay, well that’s it.” I brought them both into my office. They did not know I was there. They thought they were just going in for yet another audition. I walked in and I introduced myself. They were meeting for the first time. I’m like, “I want you two to do it. I want you just to come read with me on tape so that I can get Netflix really excited about you, which I know will happen. In my point of view, you have the part, so let’s just have fun.” And they went in and they killed their audition. I sent it to Netflix, and an hour later, everybody there was like, “Wow, yes.”

The thing I loved about them is that they were not afraid to be unlikable and that they were also really brave in their emotional choices. I could just tell that they could act it and sustain it for almost six months of shooting.

You were a journalist in the past, and it feels like you tried to apply a journalistic lens to the story—you weren’t going to tell the story from one perspective. The public clearly has strong opinions about the way that you chose to tell the Menendez brothers’ story. How are you processing those opinions? Do you even care?

I have several things to say about that. First of all, I want to address the controversy of the family—the brothers themselves. I think the show is the best thing that has happened to the Menendez brothers in 30 years. Suddenly they’re being talked about all over the world. Their case is under a new lens, and I think that people are asking very hard questions. “Should they get a new trial? Should they be free? Should people spend their entire lives in prison? How is it possible that their sexual abuse was not allowed in the second trial?”

You’re right: I took a very journalistic approach to it, as did Ian in the writing of it. I really understand that we live in a culture of outrage right now. I think people—I call them “TikTok warriors”—the very thing that they want the show to do, the show is doing. 60 to 65% of the show is dedicated to the boys talking about their sexual abuse and their theory and idea of what happened to them. And they get their day in court. We have an entire episode that is one 30-minute shot where you just get to hear Erik tell his story, which he did not really get to do in the second trial. I’m like, “Okay, people.”

I think Erik and Lyle Menendez are happy that we told this story. In fact, I know they are. They’re telling people in prison that they’re glad it exists because they’re in the news cycle every day. It shines a spotlight on them in a very dramatic, powerful way. And I think it’s going to lead to something. I think that it’s a very interesting thing that we’re doing because asking questions that are complicated. Nothing in this case is straightforward.

I do think that it’s interesting that some people are so mad about your show, as if Law and Order: SVU hasn’t been running for 25 years.

Yes. I think that people really struggle with the idea that two things can be true at the same time. You could kill your parents, and you could have been sexually abused, and you could be morally ambiguous. Three things, four things can be true. People are uncomfortable with all the points of view that we present. It makes them have to lean in in a different way.

But my intent and interest in this was very, very pure. And I can tell it’s working because I am getting calls from people who are talking about how this show is giving them an outlet to talk about and process their own sexual abuse as children, et cetera. So I’m thankful for that, and I’m thrilled about the Netflix platform where people are having these conversations all over the world in countries where this is not necessarily an easy thing to talk about.

Cooper has said that the Menendez brothers deserve a retrial, and even went to visit them in prison with Kim Kardashian. Do you have your own perspective of what is true and what isn’t true? What do you believe?

It’s interesting. My perspective changed as I worked on and researched and finished the show. I’m very interested in one idea: I think at the end of the day, if there is new evidence and there are facts that have not been presented, they should be presented, and someone in an official capacity should hear it and maybe change their opinion about the rest of the lives of these boys.

I also don’t believe that anybody should spend their entire lives in prison, particularly when they committed these crimes so young. The human male brain is not fully developed until you’re 25 years old. They were younger than that, particularly Erik. I’m interested in that conversation. That’s not to say I believe… I would never ever say too much, but that’s what I believe. I think answering and talking about this topic is interesting. And I think talking about prison reform as Cooper and Kim Kardashian are doing, it’s very necessary and interesting. I think talking about it is good.