Bret Stephens: Gail, I’ve never thought to ask you this, but we seem to have an occasion: Where do you stand on … fracking?
Gail Collins: Bret, is it possible you want to point out that Kamala Harris has upended her fracking position? She was totally against it as a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020. Way more amenable in her current role.
Bret: Surely, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that fracking has helped make Pennsylvania the second-largest natural gas producer in the country.
Gail: Fracking is deep, deep drilling for oil or gas that can reduce the cost of energy. It can also really mess up the environment and contribute to global warming. I say no, let’s just get focused on those electric cars.
Bret: Electric cars that run on batteries made of cobalt, lithium, nickel, graphite and other minerals that have to be mined in ways that are neither cheap nor clean? And which, in turn, depend on an electric grid powered, for the most part, by hydrocarbons?
Gail: I have faith we’ll get to a better version.
Bret: This is one of the burgeoning number of cases where I’m happy to see Harris come around — I just wish she could have made a better case for her current position. Like, if she had noted that by producing more natural gas in the U.S., we’ve become less dependent on coal, which is good for the planet. Or that, by producing more oil in the United States, we’re also less dependent on the Middle East. Or that, by becoming more energy independent, we can do more to ensure that we are extracting the energy in an environmentally sound way — something we can’t do when the oil is coming from Venezuela or Iraq.
Gail: Bret, are you telling me you’re going to vote Democrat this fall?
Bret: Are you going to ask about my vote every week from now till November?
Gail: Probably. Maybe for a few weeks after the election, too. I know you’re not going to want to do football predictions. Give me a hint. You sure seem to be tilting.
Bret: The only way I’m tilting is that I’ve decided to switch my write-in vote from Mr. Magoo to Representative Ritchie Torres, the Bronx Democrat, now that he’s old enough to serve as president. I’m just not sold on Harris. Sorry!
Gail: OK, we’re going to be arguing about this nearly every week, so I’m taking a temporary pass. For a more narrow Harris query: What did you think of her CNN interview?
Bret: She was likable and warm and didn’t do herself any obvious harm. But she leaned heavily on vacuous slogans, like her “new way forward.” I’m struggling to understand how she can present herself as a candidate of change while also defending Joe Biden’s record. What would you suggest she do?
Gail: There does seem to be a problem here. Harris cares about things like better schools, improved health care and aid to lower-income families who need housing, child care or other basic services.
For which she would have to come up with increased revenue. At least some of it presumably by taxing the wealthy more. If she wants to make me happy, that’s exactly what she’ll be talking about. And I think it would also perk up the ears of so-far-not-overly-enthusiastic younger voters. While, I presume, driving you further into the arms of Mr. Magoo.
Bret: Or my personal role model: Mr. Burns, from “The Simpsons.”
Gail: Sorry she didn’t get more specific on CNN. But taking a break from the Democrats, Bret, tell me how you think the other side is doing.
Bret: Great question. On one hand, Donald Trump seems to be flailing. He can’t stay on message. On subjects like abortion, he doesn’t seem to know what his message is. He hasn’t settled on a consistent line of attack on Harris the way he usually does against his other opponents: “Low-Energy Jeb,” “Lying Ted,” “Crooked Hillary,” “Sleepy Joe.” Trumpy Senate candidates, like Bernie Moreno in Ohio, Sam Brown in Nevada and Kari Lake in Arizona, are bombing in the polls, which could also hurt Trump in November.
On the other hand, why is Trump still competitive in swing states after all this “joy” coming out of the Democratic convention? To me, it suggests that Americans still have a lot of doubts about what a Harris-Walz presidency could bring — and that Trump has a deep well of hidden support that polls don’t capture.
Do you think it’s still Trump’s race to lose?
Gail: Sort of. The policy differences between the two parties are huge, and many voters still don’t believe the economy is doing well. But I have a sneaking suspicion it’ll come down to whether potential Trump supporters begin to worry that he’s too crazy to run the country. Or at least too — wow — old.
Bret: I get the sense that the assassination attempt spooked him more than he’s willing to admit and also slowed him down. And yes, there are those niggling details about him being a nut, a narcissist, a boor, a bigot, a blowhard, a tornado of baloney — a man who, to borrow from an old joke, could commit suicide by leaping from his ego to his I.Q.
Gail: Love that line.
Bret: But I still think he’s going to win. If he does, will you regret all the efforts to prosecute him?
Gail: Bret, if Trump wins, there will be so much to regret I can’t envision the priority list. Right now, I’m concentrating my postelection worries on what would happen if he loses. He’ll certainly claim the voting was rigged, challenge everything conceivable in court and encourage as many protests as possible. It could make Jan. 6 look like a school picnic.
Bret: I agree. If he loses, let it be with wide and clear margins that leave no room for doubt about the outcome — not that it will keep him from claiming he won. Then again, if he wins, I hope Democrats will take the lesson that trying to use the judicial system to prosecute a political opponent is a bad idea that is bound to backfire.
Somewhat related subject, Gail. Our colleague Nick Kristof had a terrific column last week, in which he warned that “Since the Obama presidency, Democrats have increasingly become the party of the educated, and the upshot has often been a whiff of condescension toward working-class voters, especially toward voters of faith.” Do you think Harris and Walz will change that?
Gail: Hope so. On the working-class side, one good approach is the team’s strong support of unions. I know unions aren’t necessarily your favorite organizations, but in honor of Labor Day let me point out how important unions can be in turning the working class into a middle class.
Bret: The odd thing about unions is how little enthusiasm they tend to generate among so many working-class people, especially those outside of public-sector jobs. Maybe union dues are too high or too many unions have agendas that are too left-wing for many of their would-be members. In any case, the most pro-worker thing for a government to do is to let the private economy create work and to defeat regulations that stymie it.
Take it that you … don’t agree.
Gail: A lot of our new economy involves service employees who are overworked and underpaid — or aren’t even classified as workers in the so-called gig economy. Their bosses naturally don’t want unions coming in and taking away their flexibility when it comes to matters like staffing and scheduling and of course wages. But it’s good for the country if those people get decent pay, even if it means paying more for your coffee at Starbucks or an Amazon delivery.
Bret: I’m all for good wages in steady jobs — I just don’t think unions are a particularly effective vehicle for obtaining them.
Gail: Bret, that’s a pretty weak retort unless you have in mind some other movement or entity that’s going to take up the cause. As long as there are more people who need to work than employers desperate for labor, don’t think you’ll really be able to argue that management will cough up more money than it needs to.
Bret: In the spirit of Labor Day, I concede.
Gail, earlier this year I met an exceptional woman named Rachel Goldberg, whose son, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, had been taken hostage to Gaza by Hamas after having the lower half of his arm blown off. It was Rachel who, with her husband Jon Polin, spoke movingly for the hostage families last month at the Democratic National Convention.
On Sunday, the Israeli military announced that it had found Hersh’s body, along with the bodies of the hostages Carmel Gat, Eden Yerushalmi, Ori Danino, Almog Sarusi and Alexander Lobanov, in a tunnel under Gaza. They had recently been executed by their captors. I have a feeling that, like me, many of our readers burst into tears when they saw the news. President Biden warned that “Hamas leaders will pay for these crimes,” and I hope he’s right. And I hope that all our readers can join in saying: “Let my people go.”
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