Chloë Sevigny and Josh Lucas on Career Struggles, Method Acting, and Making ‘American Psycho’

In Reunited, Awards Insider hosts a conversation between two Emmy contenders who have collaborated on a previous project.

Josh Lucas and Chloë Sevigny started acting in New York at a similar time, around 18 years old, before seeing their careers take drastically different paths. Lucas became known for his work in studio films such as A Beautiful Mind, Sweet Home Alabama, J. Edgar, and Ford v Ferrari, filming indies in between; Sevigny built on her ’90s indie cred (beginning with her breakout in Kids) by making a splash in prestige television, winning a Golden Globe for HBO’s sprawling Big Love and appearing more recently in such award-winning series as American Horror Story, Russian Doll, and The Act.

Their Hollywood journeys did cross, though, on one of the most iconic movies either has ever been a part of: Mary Harron’s American Psycho, adapted from the Bret Easton Ellis novel. The bold and discomfiting 2000 portrait of serial killer Patrick Bateman (Christian Bale) found Lucas in one of his first movies, portraying one of Bateman’s douchey Reagan-era colleagues, and Sevigny fresh off her Boys Don’t Cry Oscar nomination, playing Bateman’s secretary.

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Twenty-five years after filming that cult classic, Lucas and Sevigny reunited for Vanity Fair as Emmy contenders. As the socialite C.Z. Guest, Sevigny brings both heart and camp to FX’s star-studded Feud: Capote vs. the Swans, while Lucas is terrifically deadpan opposite Kristen Wiig in Apple TV+’s dark satire Palm Royale. Both are deeply proud of their latest projects—which may be why they feel so ready to dig into the depths of their craft, as well as the struggles they’ve faced along the way.

Read on for highlights from their conversation.

On American Psycho

Josh Lucas: American Psycho was a very, very early film for me, and I was fucking nervous. The day I met you, Chloë, I got into the car with Willem Dafoe and I was honestly shaking. I said to him, “Man, I’m so nervous,” and he turned around and he just gave me this great look and he was like, “Man, if you’re not nervous, something’s wrong.” I’ve kind of maintained that every day. Obviously, I knew your work. I’m a huge fan of Kids, and I knew you were already a darling of critical cinema that I really admired. Back then, making American Psycho, I felt like there was a group of people like you who had really deserved and earned their way into great filmmaking, and I sure felt like I was a newbie—and a nervous newbie, to say the least.

Chloë Sevigny: Yes, I can’t recall when we first met. I remember just a lot of boys, a lot of very handsome boys. I was trying to be one of the guys, but also flirt with the guys. There was a lot going on. I remember we were having cocktails in the hotel lobby, and I was trying to get everybody to go down to the spa. Weird, but yeah, why not?

Lucas: Did you have a sense of what that movie was or what it was going to be? Because I sure didn’t.

Sevigny: I feel like there was so much buildup around American Psycho. Remember Leo [DiCaprio] was attached for a minute, and then he fell out for whatever reason? I didn’t know it was going to become what it did and have the legs that it has had.

Lucas: I didn’t realize what a subversive comedy it was. I didn’t realize the way that Mary was going to turn it on its head. I don’t know if you felt this way, but I actually truly remember thinking that Christian Bale was terrible. [Laughs] I remember the first scene I did with him, I watched him and he seemed so false—and I now realize that it was this just fucking brilliant choice that he was making. That was an actor who was at such a completely different level already, and that he was capable of having these crazy layers going on in what he was doing. I thought it was bogus acting at the time, but was exactly the opposite.

Sevigny: I was trying to respect his process, which I found challenging because I’m very gregarious and silly and goofy, unbeknownst to the general public. When people take themselves so seriously, I kind of shut down, even though I take my work very seriously and I love acting and whatnot. I was really intimidated by his process and intimidated by him, and I wanted a little more generosity to make myself feel more at ease, which is my own ego.

It was a really challenging dynamic for me, but I don’t think that I thought he was bad. [Laughs] I was just kind of confused, like, Why aren’t you being social? I wasn’t even that aware of what the Method thing was. I never had any formal training; I think I was just kind of “fake it until you make it.” But the whole Method thing, I was like, What even is this approach? It was very intimidating.

Lucas: There’s a really weird bridge, as you know, between bad Method actors—who I find really, really terrible to work with—and the ones like Christian, [who’s] not paying attention to fucking anything else but what he’s doing. I have nothing but admiration for that, because a lot of Method actors are actually kind of distracting with the fact that their process is more important than anything or anybody else.

Sevigny: It’s kind of surprising that Christian would be emotionally invested the way he is, because he was a child actor. It’s not like he studied in college and then became this Method-y, Brando-y kind of thing. He found this journey from being a child actor to then an adult actor that I think is a really interesting trajectory, and I’m curious about that.

On Feud: Capote vs. the Swans and Surviving Hollywood

Lucas: You’re working with pretty amazing women on Feud, as am I on my show. I wondered if there were real lessons or connections that you’ve had to those women. Did you know many of them well, or were they all new to you? When you come in that way, they’re bringing—it’s not baggage per se, but it sure as fuck is experience.

Sevigny: Oh, yes. I had met some of them socially, just out at events and whatnot, but most of them have daughters, which was interesting. They’re a little older than me, a little my senior, but also I’m a die-hard fan of every one of them, especially Molly [Ringwald]. I was overtaken mostly by her, but they were all so warm and everybody was so open. I was surprised by how nobody had guards up. Naomi [Watts] really set the tone, and everybody was just like, “Okay, this isn’t something that we have to be stressed about. We’re just going to have fun and play all of this with ease and grace,” and that’s what we did.

Lucas: You and I both started professionally at 17, 18 years old, as opposed to that different breed that starts so young. Part of the conversation I wanted to have with you, too, is the idea of, “Look, we have been doing this now for 30-plus years.” There’s a survival element to it. I don’t know you to have had them, but I know I have had these extraordinary lulls where it just goes very, very quiet. My sense is for you, you’ve had so many other things that you’ve been publicly interested in doing, in terms of fashion, in terms of style, in terms of directing—my assumption is that’s allowed you to navigate that better.

Sevigny: In the early aughts or mid-aughts, I famously was like, “I don’t like directors anymore.” It was a pre-#MeToo annoyance about the powers that be and feeling out of control in my own career and body. I ventured into doing things where I could be creative and have a sense of ownership and power, and all of those things have been very fulfilling. But back to the lulls, I always go back to the Frank Langella essay. Have you ever read that, “The Demon Seesaw”?

Lucas: No.

Sevigny: Oh my God, Josh. It’s just a very succinct essay on riding the wave, and having to wait for the jobs, and the in-betweens. I think you’ll find a lot of comfort in it.

Lucas: I look forward to it. How has motherhood changed you? One of the things that so blew my mind about American Psycho was that Mary Harron had a two-year-old child; she was directing, sometimes, with her baby sitting on her lap. Your child’s three now?

Sevigny: He just turned four last week. His name is Vanja. We used the Serbian spelling. We had him during the pandemic, which was great because there was nothing to do, and so being very isolated with him was a really beautiful thing to happen at a really horrible time. Luckily, the jobs that I’ve been offered or doing since his birth have allowed him to come with me a lot, or leave him here at home with his dad. He loves being on set. Everyone’s very impressed with him as a set baby. He’s very quiet. He loves to watch the monitor. He loves to go on all the trucks and the trailer. He loves the trailer, loves craft service. He’s a kid. But as he’s getting older, having to think about choices is a little terrifying. My publicist always says never to say that out loud, because you don’t want anyone to think you’re not going to take a job far away from home. But it is something you have to think about. I have heard about actresses, who I won’t name, who said, “I’m only going to work in New York so I can be near my kid,” and you see their careers have suffered.

Lucas: In my mind, you have this very well-deserved kind of punk rock image, and yet in reality, you describe yourself as goofy, silly, warm. But you’ve maintained a kind of, how do I put this, ability to hold back? It’s not an aloofness or a coolness, but it’s in your relationship to the world, and particularly in fashion.

What I have watched over the years is that the idea of being a “bad boy” in any way is just not acceptable anymore. I think back to the moment where I was in a relationship with a very famous woman, and I flipped off a camera crew, and my lawyers called me and said, “You can’t fucking do this, man.” I was like, “What do you mean?” And they were like, “This is not acceptable in this day. The system is changing.” I do think that’s true. Edgy behavior that used to be part of the essence of being, I don’t know, an actor, an artist, for some people at least—it’s been roundly rejected. And in some ways, I will say, I miss that.

Sevigny: I totally miss that. Think about Angelina Jolie and how she behaved on the red carpet. It was so dynamic, and now I think people would be so frightened to behave like that.

Lucas: Absolutely.

Sevigny: You can bring it back, Josh.

Lucas: I had worked with Sean [Penn] beforehand, and they literally said to me, “You can’t be Sean Penn.” I was like, “Why? He’s great.” But Sean Penn’s probably not allowed to be Sean Penn these days.

On Palm Royale and Typecasting

Sevigny: Did you go to acting school?

Lucas: I didn’t. I so wanted to go to Juilliard. I didn’t have any money, and so the idea of going to a school where they don’t allow you to work was not a reality for me. I was born in Arkansas, but I moved from Washington State, where I went to high school, a little fishing village, and I came to New York wanting to be a theater actor and really prove myself. And what I did find very quickly was that all of those Juilliard teachers, they teach privately, and they have acting classes and movement classes and voice classes. So that is what I did for years. It was that incredible period in New York City where you’re pounding the pavement. You’re literally going to every single voice-over, commercial audition. You are desperately trying to make a living. And I’ve worked all sorts of weird jobs, but I also made that choice every night between, Do I get a beer tonight, or do I get rice and beans?

I got J. Smith-Cameron‘s apartment from her on West 4th and 6th, above the basketball place that’s there. She left, I took it over, and it was crazy expensive for me at the time, which was $1,100 for 300 square feet. I lived in that apartment for almost 15 years. Even when I started to become successful, that was still my home base.

Sevigny: You’re obviously a very nice guy—corn-fed, we just heard, Arkansas—and I’m just wondering, having naturally that kind of good looks—was there a typecasting thing that you had to bump up against? I feel like some men with that kind of look, it gets in the way.

Lucas: I was thoroughly dismissed for it, frankly. It was like, “Oh, you’re an LA TV guy. You’re a pretty boy LA TV guy.” I couldn’t break through that door. And then it’s frankly always been a bit of a, “Oh, you’re a Sweet Home Alabama guy.” I consciously—and probably did very difficult damage to my career—was trying so hard to fight against that. I did a thousand independent movies that nobody saw. I tried to be Sean Penn in all of them.

Sevigny: Aren’t we all always trying to be Sean Penn? I am.

Lucas: [Laughs] It’s funny to now go to [Palm Royale] and have people be like, “Oh, you’re funny!” I can’t tell you how much I yearned for years to go back and do that. It’s actually the place I think is the most interesting and rewarding and difficult from an acting standpoint. And to be with all of these women, some of whom are true comedy legends. I know people get angry with the sports metaphor, but I truly always saw acting as tennis, and I felt like when someone’s hitting the ball well at you, it is so much fun to play. When they’re hitting the ball badly at you, it’s pretty easy to look like you don’t know what you’re doing with them. In this case, this experience with these women hitting so hard at you—it’s so, so much fun.

Sevigny: Well, congratulations on the show and all your success, and for still being here. We’re still here!

Lucas: We are. I’ll read Frank Langella’s article tonight.

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