For 24 record-setting weeks, Ella Langley’s “Choosin’ Texas” has topped the Billboard Hot 100. Which means that for 24 weeks, Miranda Lambert — the veteran singer-songwriter who made the track with Langley — has had a front-row seat to a version of country music success that’s virtually unprecedented. And given Lambert’s own experiences, might even seem unfathomable.
More than two decades ago, Lambert, 42, began her run as one of the genre’s only female superstars of the modern era, a tough-talking spitfire with a keen ability to write bracingly detailed songs about the seamier sides of life. Women with Lambert’s level of success in Nashville were few and far between in the 2000s and 2010s. She was a steady hitmaker (“Gunpowder & Lead,” “Kerosene,” “Bluebird”), but also something of an enigma, never fully acceding to the demands and boxes the industry placed around female performers.
“I’ve spent a lot of time in my career burning people’s houses down and waiting behind the door with a shotgun and cigarette. And then, you know, crying to ‘House That Built Me,’” Lambert said on Popcast, the New York Times pop culture show. “I felt like I lived a lot of the stories that I’ve written about, but I’ve never really gone full joy.”
That turn has arrived on her 10th solo album, “Crisco,” out Friday, which is far more playful than her most fiery or introspective releases, and leans in to some of the ecstatic up-tempo country music of the 1970s and 1980s. It’s a new sound — complete with strings and beats to roller-skate to — following years of winningly ragged and rousing storytelling country.
This lightness and openness reflects a new, broader perspective for Lambert. She executive produced Langley’s album, “Dandelion,” her first time in that mentorship role. And she recently had a rapprochement with Kacey Musgraves, a childhood acquaintance with whom she’d had a frosty relationship as they traversed Nashville’s obstacle course on parallel tracks. Earlier this year, they united for a clearing-the-air duet, “Horses and Divorces,” on Musgraves’s “Middle of Nowhere.”
While sipping from a mug of self-poured “charm juice” — Tito’s and soda — Lambert spoke with Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli about country music’s long-running cold war with female performers; letting go of old grudges; and just how far not being manageable can take you.
JON CARAMANICA We seem to be in a moment of truly ascendant female performers in country, with the success of Ella Langley and many others. We’ve lived through far worse decades — everything from Tomato-gate all the way back to issues about what women can sing about in the ’60s and ’70s. I wonder if you could talk about what it was like to be a female star in the 2000s. What were the limitations that were put around you, even ones that you may not have realized until later?
MIRANDA LAMBERT I wanted to be known for my songs, not for being the pretty girl or wearing crop tops. In the early 2000s, that was kind of the thing: It’s like, dress sexy and be a pretty girl. And I was like, I’m a gun-toting redneck, you know what I mean?
I was always a pistol. And I wanted to make sure that it didn’t get lost in translation. I think that’s why Ella — I see a lot of myself in her. I was wearing vintage Waylon Jennings shirts. I’m wearing wife-beaters — I can’t call them wife-beaters anymore.
And then in the 2010s era, there were no females at all. Carrie Underwood and I made it through pretty much a solid at least seven years of only guy artists. And now I feel like it is really balanced. And I think a lot of that has to do with the way music is consumed, with social media and with streaming, and how there’s finally room for every-damn-body.
JOE COSCARELLI Was there any part of you that at the time felt prideful that you were the exception?
LAMBERT Yeah, I mean, I feel like we should get a ribbon for surviving that. That was a hard time, honestly. Carrie and I went to each other’s residencies in Vegas, and it was a really cool bonding moment because, first of all, her show was incredible, and we had never seen each other. You know why? There were only two girls for so long. We weren’t playing the same shows ever. Like, one over here, one over there. So it was kind of crazy that just three years ago we finally saw each other’s show for the first time.
It’s gotten so much better, and I’m so thankful that there’s room for a crowd now. Everybody has something different. I feel like all the voices can be heard, all the messages can be heard. You don’t have to love them all, but at least there’s a way to hear them. All the power now is with the fans.
COSCARELLI How did you come to the Ella project, especially as an executive producer?
LAMBERT I mean, that girl knows what she wants. She knows exactly who she is. Ella stopped me on a red carpet at the ACMs probably five years ago and was like, I want to talk to you about producing my record. She doesn’t give you a choice. I mean that in the best way ever.
And so we started writing, rented a house outside of Nashville and stayed for two days, and “Choosin’ Texas” was one of the songs we wrote. I just really loved that she was so strong in her vision. I saw so much of my 19-year-old self going to Nashville saying the same stuff.
And so I was like, I’m down, I’ve never done it, so we’re gonna learn together. There were hard parts of it. Creating a record is a long journey, and it’s a lot of emotions, and I did tell her, If we don’t fight by the end of this, we probably didn’t do it right.
COSCARELLI So you guys were butting heads?
LAMBERT Yeah, we did a lot, and I think that’s important because we needed to. I wanted it to be right.
COSCARELLI Was there anything on “Choosin’ Texas” in particular that you guys disagreed on?
LAMBERT That one is just like a piece of our DNA, so no. There’s this nostalgia to it, and her love for country and my love for country. It was like, this is what it’s supposed to be. Let’s let it be, you know?
CARAMANICA Do you think that ease of construction is what people connect to in the song? What is the thing that you think people are drawn to?
LAMBERT A few things: I think it is easy to listen to. I think that “sig lick” at the top — the intro. You know exactly what it is. It’s like when I hear “Amarillo by Morning,” and when I hear “Boot Scootin’ Boogie.” And what I love about the story in “Choosin’ Texas” is that she loses. He didn’t really do anything wrong. She just didn’t win. And I like the vulnerability of that.
CARAMANICA This new album, especially compared to the last two or three projects, feels playful. The production is obviously hearkening back to some ’70s and ’80s tempo-driven country music, which went away for a long time and then came back in bastardized form in the 2010s. But now I feel like we’re really back to the brass tacks of how it was 40 years ago. Why did you choose this sound for this album at this time?
LAMBERT I have a song that I wrote with Chris Stapleton and my friend Jesse Frasure called “A Song to Sing.” We put that out and we filmed the video at the Brentwood skate rink in roller skates. It was very, very ’70s, ’80s, hard-core, go all the way there, and it really kind of set us on this journey.
And in the meantime, someone had said to me, “country disco is Crisco,” and I was like, I love that. That is real country. And also my grandma had that in her kitchen my entire life, so I was like, you know what, we should just write a few more, just for fun. I feel like 23 years, almost, in the industry earned me some creative freedom, I hope.
There’s a lot of different layers to this record. Most of it’s joyful. There’s some Patsy and Tammy moments — there’s a few of those tear-in-your-voice ballads — but the majority of it is just a groove. It mostly makes you want to skate.
COSCARELLI It’s both an au courant sound — newer listeners to country know Kacey Musgraves and her blending of country and disco — but then, if you go a little deeper, and especially on “Crisco,” the title track, you reference “Islands in the Stream” by Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers. This isn’t new …
LAMBERT It’s absolutely not new. “Islands in the Stream.” Glen Campbell was such a big inspiration for this, too. And it’s got some Bee Gees vibes. It’s got Rosanne Cash. We have a Jim Croce cover on this. It’s one of those places in country music I’ve never personally explored. I’ve been more of a three-chords-and-the-truth, Merle Haggard girl.
COSCARELLI The other thing you did with this album, to go with the fun sound, is you made little videos for every track. There’s a track called “Cowgirl Curtsy” and there you are, in a honky-tonk. Is this a concession to TikTok and country music’s success in new mediums?
LAMBERT I mean, if y’all are new here because of “Choosin’ Texas,” welcome and stay a while, right? I’m so happy about that, but I’m trying to not be a dinosaur about it and go, OK, I can lean in, but do it my way so I don’t feel cheesy or uncomfortable or weird.
It’s just hard to keep up, you know? Everything changes constantly with content and what’s working and what’s not. I started in 2003, really, and I was stapling my concert posters to phone poles outside dive bars. It was just a completely different landscape. I am a really pretty introverted, private person. I just have a public job.
COSCARELLI You had your own interesting pathway into the industry, because you came up in part through a reality competition show, and had so much success so soon. What did you see about fame then that made you decide to take a different path, back into your personal privacy and maybe one half-step out of the spotlight?
LAMBERT I was on a TV show called “Nashville Star.” I did not win, which was a blessing looking back. I did three years of honky-tonks before that, though. So I got my chops the super old-school way.
I’d never flown on an airplane by myself at this time, and I feel like I learned that the cameras and the lights and all that — you have to make some choices around that to live a really good life and make sure that you stay rooted. Not everything is for everyone to have. Some of that’s just for you, and I think that’s OK. But I’m willing to give most of it in my songs. So if you need to know something, go through the catalog. It’s in there. It’s honesty, but it’s maybe not in an in-your-face kind of way.
My other tip, or what I live by, is don’t surround yourself with yes people, because that doesn’t end well. You need to have truth-tellers in your life: your family, your friends, your team, your management team, people working with you every day. I just feel like it’s so important to have people tell you, “Those jeans look like [expletive] on you,” which is my mother. “That’s not my favorite song,” or “We don’t think this is a good career move.”
My manager Marion, she has a tiny, tiny Porsche. She would take me in her car and park at the park and lock the doors, so we’re this close, and she’s very tall and German and commanding, and be like, “You’re not being manageable.” And I’m like, Oh no, I’m in trouble.
CARAMANICA What were you doing that was making you unmanageable?
LAMBERT I was being wild, going honky-tonking all the time, not focusing, not getting enough rest, getting sick on the road — just, as we say, bucking it out. I’m really strong-willed.
COSCARELLI Now that you’ve come out of that wilderness, it seems like you’re maybe more openhearted, more willing to try things. You and Kacey Musgraves have this amazing duet this year called “Horses and Divorces” about the things you have in common, and about how maybe you guys weren’t so nice to each other in the past. What has it been like to get to the other side of that rivalry mind-set?
LAMBERT I think it’s important, and also, does it matter, really? What even was it? Some dumb girl drama we don’t even remember.
COSCARELLI Some weird meme from an award show.
LAMBERT Whatever, who cares? We don’t have to be best friends either, but I respect her, she respects me, and literally, I’ve known her since she was 10. We grew up together. Very similar paths, basically the same hometown. I really want us to be there for each other as artists in general, as songwriters, as humans, and especially as female artists. We have the most amazing job in the world, but that does not mean it’s easy, ever. It gets sticky out there sometimes. It just felt good — as we say in the song, whiskey under the bridge. I don’t have the energy anymore to be so grudgy and hold on to things that don’t matter.
Credits
Popcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli and produced by Sophie Erickson, Kate LoPresti and Felice Leon. This episode was filmed by Daniele Sarti, Tyler Scheffler and Pat Gunther. It was edited by Amy Marino with help from Rebecca Blandon. Our theme music is by Elisheba Ittoop. Nick Pitman is our audio engineer and Amanda Webster is our photo editor. Brooke Minters is our executive producer. Header video cinematography is by Avery Munson Clark.
Special thanks to Sarah Bonn, Dahlia Haddad, Mike Cordero, Nicole Huber, Aaron Byrd, Carl Mazurek, Zach Caldwell, Maddy Masiello, Brad Kimbrough, Craig Hettich, Andrew Wilcox, David Malitz, Elena Bergeron, Sia Michel, Nina Lassam and Sam Dolnick.
The post How Miranda Lambert Went From ‘Gun-Toting Redneck’ to ‘Choosin’ Texas’ and Joy appeared first on New York Times.
