The creative director and producer for Mixtape shared one band that was too expensive for the soundtrack, which hangout movies inspired the game’s dialogue, and why the indie Annapurna title might not be what players are expecting.
In Mixtape, Every Song Is a Unique Level
Mixtape’s initial reveal trailer got a ton of buzz when it dropped a few years ago and players are now finally able to dive into the 1990s inspired coming of age indie title.
VICE recently had a chance to sit down with Johnny Galvatron, former lead vocalist for punk band The Galvatrons, and current video game Creative Director of Mixtape at Beethoven & Dinosaur, and Woody Woodward, Producer on Mixtape, to chat about the game’s launch…
VICE: One of the first things that struck me right away in Mixtape was the motif of rewinding. It kind of hit right from the first fail state when I was bombing the hill and I was like, “Oh, okay. So, it’s going to rewind a little bit.” and that’s how the track will go back. And then shortly after that, there’s that really great moment when you’re in Rockford’s room for the first time and you have to rewind the cassette tape. How did that idea of rewinding play into the larger design philosophy of the game?
Galvatron: Yeah, I think it’s fun sometimes when you start to realize that motif and start to realize that you can use it in other ways. Like are we going to just have a fail state when we crash the skateboard or can we like add rewinding to that?
It’s also something that with like Mixtape, as well. It’s like it’s going to be this mixtape of music and then suddenly it also became this mixtape of mechanics and then the characters are from slightly different eras and they became a mixtape and even the bedrooms have stuff from different eras and that sort of became a mixtape.
I like that when Rockford’s looking back on this music and in her greatest hits that when she’s looking back and rewinding, she sees these standard coming of age events as being actually important and cinematic when put to the right soundtrack. And then I think as the game progresses, it goes from being a rewind., from being something in the past, to her appreciating what is happening now and doing the soundtrack to now and it kind of fades from this cinematic past into something that she’s appreciating in the moment.
VICE: Could you say more about the characters, and even the rooms that we explore, are from different eras?
Galvatron: Yeah. Well, the game just became a mixtape on so many levels, right? Because mixtape is an art of arrangement. So it’s like every every time that we wanted to go into a song, every time we wanted to go somewhere else, we needed to approach it in a new way.
You can’t have the same mechanics in Devo’s ‘That’s Good’ as you do in Roxy Music’s ‘More Than This.’ You need to give every song its special feeling, its own special way. To use the medium in a way that expresses the mental state of the protagonist, which I think is a really great way to approach mechanics and gameplay. And obviously there’s tons of games that do difficulty really well and overcoming obstacles and persistence, but I love the idea of having mechanics that show when someone’s brokenhearted or their stomach has dropped and they’re floating back through town or showing, you know, trying like someone’s skill through having someone play baseball and it being really shitty mechanically and then it’s really positively mechanically when when someone who’s good at baseball plays. I really love using the medium to show what was interesting about those different songs.
And when the music was a mixtape and then suddenly the mechanics have become a mixtape and then you’re like, well, can we do that with the characters? Can we do that with the bedrooms? Can we do that with the technology? Even art styles, we go from 3D, then we use videos as backdrops sometimes, and then we use footage that we got from the ABC in Australia, which is like our PBS, that we licensed all the old musical segments from. So everything that touched the creative aspect was put into this art of collage or art of arrangement.
VICE: One of the couple things that I found interesting about the kids was that they felt like they were longing for an earlier time. Not just their high school era, but like they were out of a different time.
So not only is the game set in a different time from now, in the 90s, but the kids, particularly Rockford and Slater, don’t feel like they don’t feel like they belong in the 90s even. Did that come from personal experience from you and other people on the writing development team or was there some or was there something else behind that decision?
Galvatron: Yeah, continuing that mixtape thing. The characters themselves are definitely from different times and that was another thing that I think was really fun. Slater feels like he’s from 1988. Like he feels really thrash. And then Rockford’s ’94. She’s just watched Pulp Fiction and she’s going through grunge and listening to the Smashing Pumpkins. And then Cassandra is like 1996.
And I kind of imagine the town that they live in is like a classic radio station. It’s like an amorphous blend of the greatest hits of things. So nothing’s ever really nailed down. And Mixtape isn’t saying this is a better time or these were better moments. It’s saying that these things are always the same. Like these feelings of feeling left out. And I think more importantly, kids grabbing on to art to define who they are when they don’t have life experience.
I remember being an obnoxious kid who judged people on what CDs they had and what cassettes they had and what bands they were into. I love the idea of just seeing kids being obsessed with bands. I was one of those kids who stood at the stage door and I sold t-shirts for bands and made posters for them, I was just obsessed and would hang out with all those other little dirty scene kids at Ding-Dong Lounge in Melbourne. And then when I got my record deal, those kids came and sold my t-shirts and came to meet me at the door. So, I think I just have a deep love for scene kids and kids who define themselves by the art they consume and that’s kind of like one of the driving forces.
VICE: So, coming around to the music like you were bringing up there. Lots of games use music as a background layer, which is really impressive in its own right, but in Mixtape, the song is the level. Level by level, the song is the level. How early in the design process did you have to lock in the specific tracks that you were envisioning for each level?
Woody: Yeah, I mean, there were some that were like definite. Like the first Devo song. There was no way that wasn’t gonna be the first song in the game. But there ere certain songs that we knew we definitely wanted and so we kind of just laid them all out like a mixtape.
We laid them all out start to finish. All the tracks and then we kind of knew what we wanted narrative-wise and gameplay-wise and just saw how that felt with those tracks in that order. And then we built the whole game in a horizontal slice. So start to finish. We had the whole game playable.
Galvatron (laughing): Real sh*tty.
Woody: Yeah, real sh*tty. Like some like some cut scenes were literally just like a blank background with ‘the gang goes to this’ or whatever.
Galvatron: Because this game doesn’t work unless the pacing is electric. You know what I mean? And that’s something that we learned from Artful. Artful Escape is this long thing of these beautiful set pieces that you just blaze past and never see again. But that’s like a perfect way to learn how to pace something in a video game is that kind of game. So I think it was really important to get the arrangement right and then we could build up from that firmament.
VICE: As you were going through that process did the mechanics of a level ever change because of a specific song lyric or beat drop felt different in practice than how you imagined it would?
Woody: It did in terms of how long a level would be. Because obviously we didn’t want to like f*ck with the songs that much. So like it kind of really made us evaluate scope a lot and be like what are we saying here? Does this need to go for x minutes? Could it just go for this long? Mechanically, I think we were always kind of knew what we wanted. It was just about finding the right song for that in the right part of the story.
Galvatron: Most of the times it was song first. Laying the songs out would tell you this narrative. It would have this flow and then you rearrange them and then suddenly the narrative is different and it flows in a different way. And I mean that’s what the art of making a mixtape is. It’s an art of arrangement. So once we had that right, once we had that flow right, it was good.
I remember we were doing one for when um when Rockford floats back through the town and I was trying to find just this really f*cking sad song and it just didn’t work. It was like it was too on the nose. It just brought it down. And then I was like, “Oh well, you know, Reservoir Dog ‘Stuck in the Middle with You’. Let’s try to flip it the other way. Let’s have more of a love song sort of thing.” And then then we found that BJ Thomas ‘Most of All’ song which I think works beautifully in that level.
That’s one of my favorite levels even though it’s mechanically simple. The mechanics give you the feeling of the the state of the protagonist.
VICE: That’s on my favorite levels, as well. It’s not always consistent level to level what the song does in instances where time has to stretch out. For the Devo song, it rewinds a bit because the music needs to hit beat by beat as you get to certain points. But there were other times where I was playing where you’re listening to a song and walking around one of the rooms slowly exploring and I would find myself thinking like, “Oh, what has the song been doing?” Because like it still feels right.
Galvatron: It’s not too bad on on something like when it’s looping in a bedroom. We just find a very subtle area and sneak you back in. And then there’s levels like The Discovery at the Ritz where you fly through the fields and that is a part of the level that we needed to have more control over the music. That’s more Artful Escape in the way that that music works and flows into different sections. And also has my favorite sax solo that I’ve ever produced, which is when you head out into the water and the sax starts playing. Oh, I love that bit.
That was a level where we would use a kind of it’s just a looping and fade method where you could change different parts of the song and looping and then have trigger volumes of where you could slip into the next song. All the stuff that we had learned along the way of making the most ridiculous sound audio system for Artful Escape.
VICE: Were there were there any tracks that you had sort of designed a vignette for, but you couldn’t secure?
Galvatron: There were songs we never asked for.
Woody: Yeah. There were some songs like we were just like, “We’re not going to get it.”
Galvatron: We were talking to a music supervisor and I was like, “So, uh, Pink Floyd?” He’s like, “Don’t ask.”
Woody: “Forget about it.”
Galvatron: So we got no Floyd songs, but maybe next maybe next time. We got every song we asked for though.
Woody: I think we got everything we wanted. Everything that we were realistically asking for.
Galvatron: And everyone was super cool about it. These people could charge us a lot of money to have these songs. Like a lot. We showed all these people the game and, you know, the characters talk about the music so when you present something to an artist where there’s this character like gushing about the band and then the song plays and it all pays homage to the song and tries to lift the song up.
Every artist let us have whatever we wanted. [laughing]
Woody: Yeah, the music isn’t just for the background. It’s almost its own character. It’s its own whole pillar of the game. So, yeah, when you go you go to Devo and say, “Hey, we want this track and it’s going to be like the main track and it’s for this and it’s important.” They’re like, f*ck yeah.
VICE: There’s all the nostalgic music connection, but there’s a lot of film in the DNA of this game, as well. Lots of moments that are that a lot of people will recognize inspired by Wayne’s World or Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. Are any others that you wanted to call out that you think might many people might miss?
Galvatron: I went and saw the Mirthmobile when I was in LA. It was at the Edison Museum and I was with Leanne from Annapurna. She was taking me around and I just kind of sat there for a bit with the Mirth. The Mirth means a lot to me. I mean, that movie means a lot to me. I just sat there for a bit and then we walked away and I was like… ‘I have to go back.’
There’s a couple of spots where there’s big obvious references. One of the big ones is the end of Ferris Bueller when he’s running through all the front yards. So, we did our own Ferris Bueller, which I think is a really fun level because it’s a constant moving level and then we have separate animations for if you succeed at different things. It’s not a quick time event, but we have different outcomes with different things that happen.
Woody: It’s like choose your own adventure.
Galvatron: Yeah. And I always love playing it like getting everything wrong. Just because there’s all these amazing animations and animation subsets within there. What else is there that we that we ripped off?
Woody: Oh, no. Paid homage too. Oh, paid homage to paid. Right. Right. Right. Nothing comes to mind.
Galvatron: You pulled the big ones.
VICE: That makes me feel good about my film knowledge if I caught them all.
Galvatron: And there’s street names and stuff that are from different things like that.
VICE: Beyond like the the cool factor of referencing those films, are there any sort of specific cinematic tropes that you were trying to lean into or deconstruct with this particular group of friends?
Galvatron: Some of the parallels are like, talking to camera. I really love that. I think that works so well in Wayne’s World and it works so well in High Fidelity and especially when you want to convey a lot of information about music. I think this was the best way to do it in the craft of making a video game. A character delivering that much exposition in natural dialogue would be completely obnoxious.
Woody: It’s almost more welcoming. It’s like the character’s like, “Come into my world.” Just brings you straight into that, which is nice.
Galvatron: I bought every Devo record from Amoeba Records. We went to Amoeba Records.
Woody: There’s no longer anything Devo left to buy in the state. Yeah. It’s all gone.
Galvatron: I wanted to have some scenes where each time you come back to a bedroom, there’s they have different conversations about stuff if you interact with things. The characters give you their theories about certain things and that’s a big influence from Richard Linklater and just hang out films. Slacker and Waking Life and those kind of references.
I think the biggest time we do that is probably there’s a scene where Rockford talks about how much she hates loud motorcycles because no one deserves to be like as loud as bands. That’s probably the closest I get to having some cool Richard Linklater hangout dialogue.
VICE: Yes, that level was very Dazed and Confused coded. Do you have any favorite like needle drop moments from other movies or from games?
Galvatron (holding up an actual DVD hardcopy of 1989’s Major League): Yes. Major League. ‘Wild Thing’ when Charlie Sheen walks out to bat. Really, really good needle dropper. Big fan. I also really like ‘What Condition My Condition Was In’ from The Big Lebowski. Any needle drop in Ferris Bueller.
That’s my answers. Woody’s got none. I’d like the article to reflect that. I’d like the record to show that, please.
Woody: I was thinking of like four. But they’re all just from the game.
Galvatron: They’re all from our game?!
Woody: Yeah. It’s all I’ve been thinking about the last four years.
VICE: That’s understandable. You’re tapping into a really specific era, or eras, of suburban nostalgia. How do you think that gamers of different times and different cultures might make a personal connection to Rockford and the crew if they weren’t a 90s kid or an 80s kid?
Galvatron: I think the most important thing about any coming of age is that the setting is just the setting. It’s not what’s great about the story. Being in a 90s American suburbia is not what we think is interesting about the story at all. It’s just a fun setting where there’s a lot of great music.
The things you want to be universal are about kids defining themselves by art, because they have no major experiences. Kids defining themselves by The Smashing Pumpkins. And I was totally defined by Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness for many years. That was what grabbed me and my friends and we would all just sit around and listen to records together and be scene kids. That’s what we’re celebrating. Not some era, not some place, just kids digging music, kids digging art, and defining themselves in those kind of scenes.
Woody: Yeah, we’ve been saying if you take away one thing from this game, it’s that being into sh*t is cool.
Galvatron: Be into something. It’s cool. Absolutely.
VICE: What do you think about like the last night in your hometown is such a compelling setup that we can keep revisiting it over and over?
Woody: It’s the John Hughes thing, right?
Galvatron: It’s the John Hughes thing. Things will never be the same.
Woody: It’s like everything’s massive to them. Everything is the biggest decision. Everything sucks. It’s the end of the road all the time, but it’s like, you know, it’s Tuesday.
Galvatron: It’s just Tuesday. I think that’s something that Mixtape celebrates is that those little moments are important and cinematic and when you put them to Roxy music, they’re even more beautiful.
VICE: Was there a difficult chapter or mechanic to keep within scope of the project? Were there any that you were tempted to expand and have it take over the game?
Galvatron: Did we worry about scope and did we go too far every day? We make way too much stuff and I’m glad we do. I’m glad we have such like an incredible team. I mean, the thing is like we’re 12 people and I I cannot believe that we made a game of like this quality and this size and this grandeur.
Because video game development is so iterative because everyone is adding to it. You work on a level for years… You know when I run through Ritz Discovery, when we’re flying through the fields, I look off into the distance and I see there’s Harry in that that distant tower. And Woody planned that we had to get those like trees in by this date and I see Woody in this row of trees. Or I see Arden in this texture.
Woody: Originally the third skate you do, the one through the shopping mall and stuff, when you’re exploding everything. I think originally we had that a bit bigger. We were like, no, we got to bring it back a bit. It’s about being pissed off, listening to the Pumpkins, and blowing sh*t up.
VICE: What’s the track that you think players are going to connect with the most? The one they’ll be humming and adding to their playlist?
Galvatron: I got two just because I don’t think people know them that much and they will learn them from this. One is ‘State of the Heart’ by Mondo Rock, which plays in Cassandra’s bedroom. That’s an Australian track that I don’t think people know. Mikey, our 3D modeler and and VFX technician, his dad is in this famous Australian band called Mondo Rock. And he didn’t tell me until weeks after he started working at the company that his dad was in Mondo Rock. His dad wrote that song. And he wrote it about his mom. It’s a love song about his dad wrote to his mom. Or at least that’s what we thought. And then months later into development, we found out no, he’d just written it for someone else.
And the other one is ‘Yesterday’s Hero’ by John Paul Young, another Australian track which happens in the in the Ferris Bueller level. And I think that is an all-time classic rock and roll track that people will really dig.
Woody: I’m going to stay on theme and say the Silverchair track for the head banging level.
VICE: Anything else you want people to know about Mixtape?
Galvatron: It’s got Devo. I don’t know.
Woody: It’s got Devo in it. I don’t know if you’ve heard. Yeah. Um,
Galvatron: I don’t think the game’s what people think it is. Play it. It’s a bit different than you think.
Mixtape is available now on Nintendo Switch 2, PlayStation 5, Windows PC (via Steam and Epic Games Store), and Xbox Series X|S.
The post One Band That Didn’t Make it into Mixtape – And Everything Else We Learned Chatting with the Game’s Creators appeared first on VICE.
