The House Oversight Committee on Monday released full videos of the depositions it took of former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in the Jeffrey Epstein investigation.
In a combined roughly nine hours of questioning last week — about four and a half for each — Republicans and Democrats grilled the Clintons about their relationships with the disgraced financier and convicted sex offender who died in prison in 2019, and Ghislaine Maxwell, his longtime associate.
Both said repeatedly that they had no knowledge of any sex trafficking or sexual abuse by Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year prison sentence for sex trafficking.
Here are seven takeaways from the depositions.
Hillary Clinton did not want to be there.
Mrs. Clinton fought for months to avoid testifying before Congress on the Epstein matter, and she remained defiant throughout the deposition about being forced to appear. Her answers and body language dripped with disdain for what she at one point called an “institutional failure.”
She appeared to struggle at times to keep her cool amid questioning that she considered useless.
“How can I answer questions about a person that I don’t believe I ever even met,” she said at one point.
Later, she declared: “I don’t know how many times you have to say the same thing over, and over, and over again. And I just am struggling with the relevance of all of this.”
Bill Clinton described a businesslike relationship with Epstein.
Mr. Clinton, who presented a more relaxed demeanor under questioning, minimized his ties to Mr. Epstein, portraying their relationship as “cordial” and businesslike rather than a true friendship.
He said he had not engaged in any sexual conduct with women or girls that Mr. Epstein introduced him to, that he never visited Mr. Epstein’s private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands and that he did not witness any sexual acts while traveling on Mr. Epstein’s plane.
As for the now infamous image of Mr. Clinton reclining in a hot tub with a woman whose face is blacked out, he said: “I don’t know who that is,” but added that he never had sex with her.
The former president told the committee that he was first connected with Mr. Epstein in 2001 or 2002 by Larry Summers, his former Treasury secretary.
Mr. Clinton said that Mr. Summers had described Mr. Epstein as “an information-hungry person” who wanted to talk to the former president about politics and economics. In exchange, Mr. Epstein would let Mr. Clinton fly on his private plane for humanitarian trips.
“I thought we had an understanding about the airplane,” Mr. Clinton said. “That he would let me use the airplane to set up my AIDS programs around the world if I agreed to talk to him for an hour about economics and politics on every long leg. I kept my word, and he seemed to honor his.”
After several trips, Mr. Clinton said that he felt that Mr. Epstein did not share his humanitarian aims, and so he began working instead with donors who were better aligned with his mission.
Nancy Mace got a rise out of Hillary Clinton
Representative Nancy Mace, Republican of South Carolina, took a lead role in questioning Mrs. Clinton, pressing her repeatedly about her “feelings” about images from the Epstein files in which Mr. Clinton appears with young women.
“When you saw your husband in these photos with young women, being massaged, what went through your mind?” Ms. Mace asked her.
“I am not going to speculate,” Mrs. Clinton, who has had plenty of practice over the years in fielding questions about her husband’s relationships with other women, responded coolly.
But Ms. Mace got the confrontation she was seeking when she asked about Mrs. Clinton’s relationship with Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, who served as chief executive of Cantor Fitzgerald on Sept. 11 2001, when Mrs. Clinton was a senator from New York.
When Ms. Mace reminded Mrs. Clinton that she was a sexual abuse survivor who was “trying to look out for others survivors,” Mrs. Clinton lost her cool.
“Well, and I was taking care of the people who lost 3,000 lives at the World Trade Center,” she said, banging her hand on the table.
“And now you’re being defiant and indignant today,” Ms. Mace shot back.
Bill Clinton recounted discussing Epstein with Donald Trump.
House Democrats have been trying to use Mr. Clinton, the first former president ever to be forced to testify in Congress against his will, as a precedent to make it easier for them to call Mr. Trump as a witness.
Mr. Clinton did not exactly help their case.
“That’s for you to decide,” Mr. Clinton said when asked if he thought Mr. Trump should be asked to testify before the committee about Mr. Epstein. “But he did know him well.” (When asked the same question, Mrs. Clinton said: “he’d be on my list.”)
Mr. Clinton said that he discussed Mr. Epstein with Mr. Trump about 20 years ago at one of Mr. Trump’s golf courses. The former president said Mr. Trump had told him that he had fallen out with Mr. Epstein over a “property deal.”
“He said, ‘You know, we had some great times together over the years, but we fell out all because of a real estate deal,’” Mr. Clinton recalled. “And he said, ‘I’m sorry it happened.’ That’s all. ”
Mr. Clinton said that Mr. Trump “never said anything to me to make me think he was involved in anything improper with regard to Epstein either.”
He did not, as Representative James R. Comer, the Kentucky Republican who chairs the committee, claimed afterward, exonerate Mr. Trump.
Hillary Clinton was repeatedly pressed about Pizzagate
Representative Lauren Boebert, Republican of Colorado, raised the topic of “Pizzagate,” a conspiracy theory that falsely claimed that Democrats ran a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizzeria in Washington, D.C.
She asked Mrs. Clinton if she had reviewed any of the files released by the Justice Department in the Epstein case that might relate to claims regarding Pizzagate.
“Pizzagate was totally made up,” Mrs. Clinton responded with exasperation. “It was an outrageous allegation that ended up hurting a number of people, that caused a deranged young man to show up with his assault rifle and shoot up a local pizzeria.”
She added, “I can’t believe you’re even referencing it.”
“There are connections to the language,” Ms. Boebert responded.
After three more rounds on the subject, Mrs. Clinton appeared to give up.
“I expected a lot of interesting questions today,” she said, “but Pizzagate was not on my list.”
The Clintons had hoped to disarm Ms. Boebert with a charm offensive. Ahead of the hearing, when they heard she would be traveling to Chappaqua, N.Y., with her grandson in tow, they brought along toys, including magnetic tiles and a stuffed animal, and books for the room where House Republicans took breaks.
The baby toys went unacknowledged.
Bill Clinton said he was ‘sad’ to learn of Ms. Maxwell’s role
Mr. Clinton said his relationship with Ms. Maxwell “had been friendly” and that it lasted longer and was “more extensive” than his relationship with Mr. Epstein.
He recalled that Ms. Maxwell dated Ted Waitt, a tech billionaire who was a friend of the Clintons and a major donor to the Clinton Foundation. (Mrs. Clinton said Ms. Maxwell was a guest at Chelsea Clinton’s wedding because she was there as Mr. Waitt’s date.)
But Mr. Clinton said that he had been unaware of Ms. Maxwell’s extensive involvement in Mr. Epstein’s sex trafficking operation.
At another point, Mr. Clinton was asked about Ms. Maxwell’s efforts to get clemency from Mr. Trump. As he answered, Mr. Clinton acknowledged that it was hard for him to process Ms. Maxwell’s role in Mr. Epstein’s crimes.
“You know, we had been friendly with Ghislaine,” he said. “I felt sad. But it had — it was terrible, what she did, and she has to be punished.”
Hillary Clinton balked after a leaked photo.
Mrs. Clinton was about an hour into her deposition when her attorney Cheryl Mills interrupted with an update from social media: a photo had been released from inside the room.
The image, which was taken by Ms. Boebert, quickly circulated online after it was posted on X by Benny Johnson, a right-wing blogger.
Mrs. Clinton barely missed a beat in crying foul and seeking to capitalize on a violation of committee rules.
“I’m done with this,” she said, raising her voice. “If you guys are doing that, I am done. You can hold me in contempt from now until the cows come home. This is just typical behavior.”
Mrs. Clinton got up from the table, gathered up her papers and exited the hearing room. She returned about 30 minutes later, after receiving assurances from Republicans that it would not happen again.
Democrats tried unsuccessfully to use the incident to open up the hearing to the press, but Republicans refused.
Annie Karni is a congressional correspondent for The Times.
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