In 2018, a nervous-looking He Jiankui took the stage at a scientific conference in Hong Kong. A hush settled over the packed auditorium as the soft-spoken Chinese scientist adjusted his microphone and confirmed the circulating media reports: He had created the world’s first gene-edited babies.
Three little girls were born with modifications to their genomes that were intended to protect them against HIV. The changes he’d made to their DNA were permanent and heritable, meaning they could be passed down to future generations.
A Chinese court sent him to prison for three years, and the Chinese government banned genome editing for reproductive purposes. Now He is trying to reestablish himself as a man out to change history.
Since his release in 2022, He says, he’s worked on a gene therapy for boys with Duchenne muscular dystrophy. He has yet to publish or share any results publicly, but he claims that a pharmaceutical company has taken on his Duchenne research and that funders are eager to help him continue his work. And He, who has set up an independent lab in south Beijing, recently started talking again about human embryo editing—this time to prevent Alzheimer’s. With germline editing prohibited in nearly every country including the United States, his path forward is unclear.
Through it all, He has documented his life on social media. He has posted about his failed romance with self-styled “biotech Barbie” Cathy Tie, a Canadian former Thiel fellow and cofounder of a human embryo editing startup. A condition of this interview was that WIRED refer to He as a “pioneer of gene editing,” but he has more colorfully referred to himself on X as “Chinese Darwin,” “Oppenheimer in China,” and “China’s Frankenstein.”
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He often posts photos of himself in a crisp lab coat, posing alone near scientific equipment. One glaringly empty lab shot comes with the text “I did not violate ethics, I overturned it.” More recently he dropped the austere look and posted an image of himself seated on a giant throne with prehistoric animals at his feet, a rainbow beaming down on his crown, and a double helix adorning his purple robe.
WIRED spoke with He about designer babies—the ones already born and the ones he hopes to eventually produce. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Emily Mullin: Back in 2018 the scientific consensus was that gene editing was not a mature technology. Do you think it’s mature now?
He Jiankui: Anyone who is the first in the world, no one can say it’s mature. The Wright brothers who made the first flight, was it mature? Of course not, but they made history.
I’m lucky that Lulu, Nana, and the third girl were healthy; they’re normal. We have observed them for seven, eight years now. So I think it’s time to move on to hundreds of gene-edited babies. We should give a trial to maybe 300 now.
Do you keep in touch with the parents of the three babies?
Yes, we have regular contact.
And everything seems fine?
Yeah, they go to primary school. Their family is very happy with it.
Have their parents told them that they were gene-edited?
No.
What is your new lab focusing on?
The new lab is germline gene editing—embryo gene editing—and it is focusing on trying to prevent Alzheimer’s disease.
What genes are you working on?
The APP-A673T mutation. This mutation was identified in the population in Iceland. People with this mutation are free of Alzheimer’s and even live longer. They’re healthy and normal. So we want to introduce the mutation to the next generation, so they will have the same mutation as Icelandic people and be free of Alzheimer’s.
Are you currently working with human embryos?
For now, we’re not getting into the embryo yet. We’re still on human cell line experiments.
And you’ve been doing this for the past couple of months?
Yes.
Why are you more interested in embryo editing than in treating existing patients with gene editing?
Because it is going to change the world.
Where does your funding come from?
Donations and some people who provided early seed money. I don’t talk to investors; they come to me. Maybe every week, an investor comes to Beijing, wants to have dinner with me and also wants to invest in me, or maybe they propose some business ideas. Also from Canada, from Russia, all kinds of places.
How much has your lab raised so far? Does this include any government grants?
50 million yuan [$7 million]. No government funding.
And you’re hoping to raise more?
I need $10 million. With that money, I will finish the Alzheimer’s work—from cell lines to mice to monkeys. And even a clinical trial, a small-scale clinical trial.
You mentioned on X that a patient had donated some money.
Oh, yes, the patient is an entrepreneur of a big company. Also his family has this disease.
Do you mean Alzheimer’s, or another disease?
I cannot disclose the disease. It is the patient’s privacy.
Is it fair to say that your funders are wealthy people who want their own babies to have protective traits?
No.
How many people are working in your lab on Alzheimer’s?
It’s just me plus two, three people.
Are you allowed to carry out a clinical trial in China given your criminal history?
Germline gene editing is currently banned in China. So all I’m doing in Beijing is human cell lines, mice and monkey embryos, then I’ll stop. I wanted to start a lab in Austin, Texas, to continue the embryo editing research, but I don’t have a passport.
So my new plan is to go to Hong Kong. But for the human trial, it has to be somewhere else. South Africa made it legal last year. [Editor’s note: In August 2025, South Africa removed language from its national ethics guidelines that some had interpreted as potentially allowing heritable human genome editing.]
Do you think that South Africa would be receptive to you going there?
I already talked to people from South Africa. They showed great interest.
Are you allowed to leave the country?
It is possible.
You have condemned research on IQ enhancements, but some people might consider editing embryos to prevent Alzheimer’s a form of enhancement. Where do you draw the line between disease prevention and enhancement?
Recently, some billionaires in Silicon Valley have been pushing forward to enhance human IQ, in particular in babies. I think that is a Nazi eugenic experiment. That should be stopped. The scientists working on this should be arrested if they want to enhance human IQ for the billionaires. With Alzheimer’s or HIV, it’s just for preventing human disease and never to enhance the IQ of a person.
How many years away do you think you are from trying to create babies that have been edited for Alzheimer’s protection?
I need two years to finish mice and monkeys and also some human embryo studies. And then we wait for regulatory approval in South Africa. Or if Americans are OK with it, then we go to America, or Japan.
There are already animals being created from highly edited embryos. Like the dire wolves that were revealed in 2025 and the pigs that are being used for human transplants. Do you think it might be possible to one day do multiple genetic edits to a human embryo?
That’s exactly what we are developing in our lab. We want to make 12 edits in one embryo and make it safe.
If we could have multiple edits that could prevent cancer, Alzheimer’s, cardiovascular disease, HIV, and others, in a panel of 10 to 20 genes, that will prevent all the major diseases that are happening today. The children born will be much healthier and maybe even live longer than us.
I could see this research being controversial to some people. How do you plan to avoid run-ins with Chinese authorities?
Just be open, transparent, do the right thing. I post my research plan on social media, so everybody knows what I am doing. My lab is also open. It’s not a secret. People come visit. Unfortunately, it’s not open for foreigners anymore due to national security reasons.
Have you had interactions with the Chinese government since you were in prison?
I’m not going to go against the law.
You gained instant fame with the birth of those babies and then spent time in prison, and now here you are continuing your work. What have you learned in this time?
The most important thing is, make sure the patient is happy. Make sure that it improves their health or happiness. That’s the number one requirement for any medical research. You don’t worry about ethics, national geopolitics, or anything.
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