In the time since ASAP Rocky released his last album, “Testing,” in 2018, he’s acted in two Hollywood movies, became romantic partners and a father of three with Rihanna, faced two criminal prosecutions and seen dozens of his unfinished songs let loose onto the internet by leakers.
It has been a sometimes agonizing, sometimes thrilling stretch of time defined by upheaval, and it sometimes seemed like Rocky might never put out an album again.
“I never accepted that,” he said on Popcast, The New York Times pop culture show, in an interview last week. “That’s my core. I consider myself a Renaissance man, so it starts with music.”
His fourth album, “Don’t Be Dumb,” released Friday, is a return to some of Rocky’s familiar musical influences, with gothic takes on Southern rap styles (“Playa,” “Helicopter”) and experimental production that dabbles in cloudy abstraction and psychedelic rock (“Punk Rocky”). Typical of the rapper’s preferred eclecticism, the album features appearances by rappers like Doechii and Tyler, the Creator, alongside vocals from the folk singer Jessica Pratt and Damon Albarn.
“I think this album is what 2011 Rocky would be making in 2026,” he said. (He has also maintained a sense of humor about the long wait: In advance of the album, he released merchandise emblazoned with the phrase “Album Never Dropping.”)
In a wide-ranging conversation, Rocky, 37, discussed how he’s grappled with the effects of his legal entanglements — the alleged shooting of a former close friend, for which he was acquitted in Los Angeles last year, and an assault conviction for a street fight in Sweden in 2019, for which he served no additional jail time. He also detailed what it’s been like to make music since the death of his musical mentor and adviser ASAP Yams; his family life with Rihanna; and his growing acting career, including what it was like to engage in a rap battle with Denzel Washington in Spike Lee’s latest film, “Highest 2 Lowest.”
The interview can be watched in full here or listened to below. These are edited excerpts from the conversation.
JOE COSCARELLI Here we are, nearly eight years from “Testing,” and you start off the new one right off the bat: “It’s been a little while since I’ve been in the league / a couple lil trials, a couple lil leaks.” Not to mention three kids, the movies. Which of those things is most responsible for you not releasing music?
ASAP ROCKY All of the above. I just didn’t want to really use the kids as a scapegoat. [Laughs]
I just always said to myself, like, I ain’t going to rush it, man. I thought I was ready in 2024. I thought the court case was going to be done, that kept getting pushed back. And it was just kind of hard to really focus, you know what I mean? Not only that, me being a parent played a big part. I want to be there. I want to be present. I want to be supportive. And all of these different instances is what gave me new material to talk about.
COSCARELLI There’s a lot of family stuff on this album, but also a lot of anger about your trial last year, including a song called “Stop Snitching.” That followed the case in Sweden. Were you thinking, “How did I get myself back into another of these situations?”
ROCKY Absolutely. Every time you’re in a situation like that, it’s “never again.” And when it happens again, you’re like, What the [expletive], here we are again. But there’s a lesson to be learned, even if you’re not in the wrong necessarily. God just has a funny way, in my opinion, of humbling you.
COSCARELLI I’m curious about the push and pull between “I can’t believe this is happening to me” and “what is my role in what is happening?”
ROCKY I think a lot of rappers have a hard battle with survivor’s guilt, survivor’s remorse. For a long time, I was that guy, and I wanted everybody happy, I wanted everybody successful. It’s really predominantly in hip-hop culture where you’re supposed to live by this certain code, you’re supposed to do these certain things for your boys.
That didn’t change who I am as a man — if you’re a loved one of mine, a friend, relative, I’mma still look out for you any way I can. But I felt more compelled to take on everybody’s issues and I kept being supportive of just nonsense, no good people. I think this was God’s way of showing me, you’ve got to cut it off. And when I cut it off, this was their way of pulling me back in.
JON CARAMANICA As you’re feeling pulled back on this one path, you also have a whole new path that’s presenting itself — your three children. I wonder if you were not a family man now, would it have been much harder to cut off all the others?
ASAP ROCKY Absolutely, bro. A woman will change your whole life, especially if it’s a companion. Being with my girl took a blindfold off. As soon as you get with a girl, she’ll tell you like, “That’s not your friend. That’s your friend. But that one …”
COSCARELLI And to be clear, you didn’t just get with any girl.
ASAP ROCKY I know — I got with a very special woman, you know what I mean? I’m thankful that she was put in my life at that time, because I think any time prior to that, I don’t think I was ready for something like that. I don’t think she was either.
CARAMANICA I wonder how finding a partner like that, being in love, changed you. Because if you would’ve asked me in 2012, is this guy going to be the most happily coupled-up man in rap music, I respectfully would have said probably not.
ASAP ROCKY Hell no. We was having fun.
CARAMANICA But you’ve hard-swerved and I wonder what it took to get you to that place?
ASAP ROCKY I always wanted to be a parent. Everybody knows you’ve got to be really selective and careful about who you procreate with. Meeting somebody that was like, morally inclined, it really felt like we were parallel as far as things we can agree on. We were on the same page, born the same year, my dad is from her country — you know, being in the same industry, doing the same thing. It’s so many similarities it’s just funny — we laugh about it a lot.
She was always my boo. I always had love for her. And when we were just friends, my mother used to say, like, “I know you like this girl that you with right now” — I ain’t going to say no names — “but I want you with Riri!” “That girl don’t even want me like that. We cool, Ma, that’s just my friend, chill!” “But I’m telling you, she real!” And mothers know best.
CARAMANICA One thing I’ve thought a lot about watching your life with Rihanna over the last few years is that your friend and mentor Yams is not present to watch this part of your life. For that time in between, was there an absence you felt that finding a partner healed?
ASAP ROCKY There’s still that empty void, even to this day. Yams and her was like this, though [crossing fingers]. She loved Yams! She took us on the Diamonds tour and Yams used to come out lit. I mean, everybody loved Yams. He was a lovable guy.
CARAMANICA I know how seriously you took his musical judgment. In those intervening years where you didn’t put records out, did you not know who to turn to say, “Is this the right thing?”
ASAP ROCKY I don’t, so I just do me. But I have really good taste, especially when it comes to décor, fashion, lifestyle, music, film, everything. I’m so confident in it. It’s just like, I make certain music, it’s an acquired taste. You can’t compare Chanel to Fashion Nova.
COSCARELLI So you don’t feel like you’re chasing hits, you’re chasing bespoke sounds that feel true to you. Because you’re a famous guy, but you don’t really have Top 40 hits.
ASAP ROCKY I don’t gotta do that. I did that right out the gate. We know the formula — everybody knows the formula: “Yo, get this artist, get that artist, get this producer, call it a day.” It’s easy. You can tell when people are looking for hits by the choice of collaboration.
Personally, I never exploited my music for my celebrity advantages. I don’t have to — I’m that guy, I’m Him Burton. I don’t gotta do none of that.
COSCARELLI So you consider your music and your celebrity separate, and your celebrity allows you to not compromise in your music?
ASAP ROCKY Absolutely. I’d just rather be a creative genius. Miss me with the politics, man.
CARAMANICA Something fundamentally changed in rap fashion in 2013, 2014, after ASAP and Odd Future. Watching the “Peso” or “Purple Swag” videos, it’s just how everyone dresses now. I wonder how you think about influence outside of a purely musical sense.
ASAP ROCKY It’s flattering because, like you said, before me, it was Kanye and it was Pharrell. Before him it was Kool Keith, it was Grand Puba, you know, fly guys. I think that we’re supposed to inspire. I’m glad that I get to be the guy that people reference or go to or see some type of inspiration in, because I feel that way about me, too, you know what I’m saying?
COSCARELLI That said, you’re being very magnanimous about it now, but you also have a song on this record called “Stole Ya Flow” where you’re not taking so kindly to people biting your style. Obviously the internet is going to decide who you’re talking about …
ASAP ROCKY I think we all know.
COSCARELLI They’re going to say it’s Drake. He was with you in those early days, brought you on tour. Where did things go wrong in that relationship?
ASAP ROCKY I don’t know, I just started just seeing people who started out as friends become foes. Seemed like they was unhappy for you and started sending shots. I think that’s what led to any of our misunderstandings or whatever the case is. It really ain’t smoke.
CARAMANICA Does it feel resolvable to you?
ASAP ROCKY Nah, it don’t even need to be. For what?
COSCARELLI An album like “Testing” was an experimental swerve for you and even this album might not be an immediate crowd-pleaser. These are albums listeners like to argue over. Do you think you’re appreciated as the creative genius you say you are?
ASAP ROCKY I think that I don’t give a [expletive]. I think I am. I know I am. Without trying to sound delusional or too self-centered, yes, absolutely. If you look at my discography, it speaks for itself.
Joe Coscarelli is a culture reporter for The Times who focuses on popular music and a co-host of the Times podcast “Popcast (Deluxe).”
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