“I’ve spent my entire life working on independent films,” says veteran producer Cassian Elwes, “and this may be the most difficult period of time ever.”
Elwes has been in the thick of indie producing for 40 years, finding plenty of success with titles like “The Butler” and “Dallas Buyers Club.” His latest, the Gus Van Sant-directed “Dead Man’s Wire,” was one of his hardest yet to get across the finish line, even as its journey to an awards season release — its Oscar-qualifying run begins Dec. 12 — highlighted everything about passion and perseverance that keeps Elwes doing it. “I had those moments, staring at the phone, it isn’t ringing, and thinking, ‘What am I going to do?’ But I’ve always had this motto to myself, to never give up. As I’ve gotten older, when people say no to me, it just drives me harder.”
Not for nothing was Elwes interested in telling the true story of Tony Kiritsis (Bill Skarsgård), who became an outlaw folk hero in the 1970s when he kidnapped the son of an insurance company executive. As ill-advised as Kiritsis’ problem-solving was, the metaphor for indie film was apparent. “This guy wants to fight the system,” says Elwes. “I hoped we could plant in people’s minds that there’s an alternative to what we get from studios.”
Describe your low point getting “Dead Man’s Wire” made.
In the early part of last year, the whole movie just blew up. During preproduction, everybody left. The actor, the director. Then the guy who gave me the money for preproduction called and said, “I didn’t give it as a gift. You have 60 days to give it back to me.” I thought, I’m just going to have to knock it out. I was in this level of depression. Then one day, I’m having coffee at the Soho House, and I see Gus Van Sant walking across the room, like a message from God. I ran over to him. “Gus! I’ve got a movie for you!” He called me the next day and he was in. Then I had to raise the money in four weeks, because we were already in heavy prep.
You must have been a tornado, because the movie’s opening frames, instead of the usual handful of logos, simply list dozens of producing entities.
There was never going to be one or a few companies coming on board with so short a time. We hadn’t presold any of it. This was going to totally get made from private investors. A quilt of financing. We raised in small parcels [in the thousands] — 500, 350, 650, 125 — and there were multiple partners, they all wanted producing credits, and I said yes to everybody just to get the money in. Almost like crowdfunding. But the fact that it was Gus, a legend, and my reputation, that gave confidence to people. I’ve worked on close to 400 films, and if I say I’m making a movie, they can take that to the bank.
You made this without an output deal. Is that why it’s getting harder for indies? Not knowing how it’s getting in front of viewers?
The bread and butter of independent distribution till now had been ancillary rights: DVDs, pay television, then pay-per-view. You had that backbone to recoup your advances. But over four years, primarily during COVID, streamers dominated eyeballs in America, and the distribution companies decided they had to be in the same business. Then, to get more subscribers, the push was to make their own IP or buy big theatrical motion pictures that had success. Independent films got marginalized. There’s much more caution in spending on independent film, because what is that home for it going to be?
“Dead Man’s Wire” landed the prized twofer premiere of Venice-then-Toronto. Are festivals still crucial for indies?
It’s everything. For real art-house cinema, it has to have that Good Housekeeping stamp of approval. It’s tricky when most independent studios have their Oscar movies lined up for the fall, and Venice and Toronto are basically to showcase them. We didn’t have a distribution company, so we were very late in the game. It was a roll of the dice, but I was very conscious of all the investors involved. Sundance would have meant waiting all year [for awards season]. I wanted to get all the investors their money back as soon as possible.
Your game plan worked, because new indie distributor Row K stepped up and made “Dead Man’s Wire” its first acquisition.
A perfect scenario. They’re going to do an unbelievable job. What’s key is that they love it. There needs to be more companies like Row K stepping up to the plate. We need more options for distribution in America, more creative thinking about ancillary rights for films. I keep reading about YouTube, and at some point, some clever person is going to figure out how to rope them into releasing independent films. The situation is so dire that it requires forward thinkers. Our whole society is being pushed toward innovation with the advent of [artificial intelligence].
What are your thoughts on AI?
Obviously, it’s a bête noire, and nobody wants to talk about it as a [creative] replacement. But somebody’s going to harness AI into distribution, and that’s going to be a game changer. I’m hoping that innovation is going to create more of a marketplace for independent films and help us monetize the ones we’re making. Because I do believe the audience is out there, that has the desire to see alternative films.
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