An Anti-Polarization Pope

An anti-polarization pope

When Pope Francis visited the island of Lampedusa in 2013, as one of his first trips as pontiff, the choice felt deliberate. The island, situated between Sicily and Tunisia, was the first point of arrival for many African migrants headed for Europe. Francis’s papacy would go on to be deeply concerned with the rights of migrants, refugees and the downtrodden.

Ever since Leo was elected pope in May, the question Francis fans and critics alike have been trying to answer is: How similar or different is he to his predecessor?

That’s why his trip to Turkey and Lebanon over the past week has been scrutinized so closely. It’s the first real window into his geopolitical views and the role he assigns to the Catholic Church in a troubled world.

My colleague Motoko Rich has spent six days traveling with Pope Leo in the Middle East. I spoke to her about what this first foreign trip as pope tells us about the new leader of the Catholic Church — and the man himself.

Motoko, you’ve been traveling with Pope Leo. Is there symbolism in the choice of the destination here?

Going to the Middle East is a big deal. It’s a signal that this pope is very interested in a region that isn’t majority Christian, and is in conflict. And while he’s been here, he’s talked constantly about peace. You’ll remember the first word out of his mouth when he became pope was ‘peace.’ So in some ways it’s not totally surprising that he chose to come here, but in other ways, it really is — you’d think the pope’s first trip would be to a majority Catholic country.

Did Leo weigh in on the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians?

Leo is more diplomatic than Pope Francis, who said that what was happening in Gaza should be investigated as a possible genocide. But Leo reiterated the Vatican’s support for a two-state solution. And remember that on the anniversary of the Oct. 7 attacks, Leo’s secretary of state made a point of calling both the Hamas attack and the subsequent war in Gaza massacres.

One thing people are trying to figure out about this pope is how he differs from Francis. What’s your impression so far?

I don’t think he’s drastically different from Francis in terms of his values. One thing he’s probably emphasized more than Francis is the risk of artificial intelligence. But he’s doubled down on Francis’s messages on protecting the environment and the dignity of the most vulnerable. His first official document was about poverty. He also exhorted U.S. bishops to condemn mass deportations in the U.S. These are all very Francis-like views.

But it’s the way he does it. He doesn’t necessarily condemn or chastise directly. He doesn’t come across as aggressive.

How do you think he sees his own role, and the role of the Catholic Church, in the world at this moment?

The best way to describe him is as the anti-polarization pope.

His biggest issues are peace and unity. He knows he’s operating in a context where very few world leaders are talking that way. It’s not a collaborative world. He’s looking at a polarized landscape and responding to it.

And, of course, he’s dealing with a polarized church. There are many issues within the Catholic Church that are controversial, including whether women should be ordained, whether divorced and remarried Catholics can have communion and whether same-sex couples should be able to participate in the sacrament of marriage.

He’s the first pope from the U.S. Is his American background a thing?

He’s definitely not your typical American. He spent 20 years in Peru and speaks fluent Spanish and Italian. You get the impression that he’s trying to kind of pull back a little bit on his Americanness.

But of course it shows up in every way. There’s his accent, for one. He has those flattened Midwestern vowels! And three out of his four favorite movies are very classic American movies.

His movie recommendations were so interesting. “The Sound of Music,” “It’s a Wonderful Life,” “Ordinary People” and “Life is Beautiful,” an Italian film, one of my favorites. What does that list tell us?

Some of the choices were intriguing. “The Sound of Music” is a movie about a woman who starts out as a nun in training but doesn’t end up as a nun. “Ordinary People” is a movie about difficult family relationships, and at the end, the mother leaves. It’s not necessarily a good fit for a church whose message is that husbands and wives must stay together. He didn’t just choose movies that would be perfectly aligned with Catholic messaging.

You’ve now been with Leo on a plane. What kind of a guy is he?

He’s certainly willing to be playful (he’s a Wordle guy). He has a sense of humor. And he seems humble. I’ve spent a lot of time observing politicians and diplomats in different countries, and he doesn’t have that quality of, like, I’m the most important person in the room. He really comes across as someone who sees himself as here to observe.

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